Subjects: death of the Queen Mother; visit to London; protests at Woomera; Middle East; health insurance; federal leadership
E&OE...........
ZEMANEK:
Mr Howard good afternoon.
PRIME MINISTER:
How are you Stan? Good to talk to you and your listeners.
ZEMANEK:
Very good to talk to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Did you have a good Easter?
ZEMANEK:
I had a fabulous Easter. As a matter of fact we went down to Portsea, had a beautiful time down there. What did you do with yourself?
PRIME MINISTER:
I had a very good family Easter. Ended up playing golf in the beautiful weather yesterday afternoon so I';m not complaining.
ZEMANEK:
Are you a good golfer?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, but I enjoy it.
ZEMANEK:
It';s frustrating though isn';t it, [inaudible] little white ball around the place.
PRIME MINISTER:
The old definition of how to ruin a good walk. But it';s a very good game.
ZEMANEK:
Absolutely. I must admit I was watching TV early in the morning on the weekend and the news broke about the Queen Mother. That really is sad.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, she';s been a great lady. It';s a long life. It';s an amazing thing. I guess the thing that strikes you about the death of somebody of that age is the reminder of all the things she lived through and you sort of do the calculations back when she was born, no motor cars, telephone literally had only just started, they had gas lamps in London, before the Federation of Australia, before the first World War, and she lived through all of those events, so it';s quite a remarkable life. And it';s always sad when somebody dies but it';s a very long life and it';s an occasion of thanksgiving for the contribution she made to the institution and the family that she served so very faithfully.
ZEMANEK:
Absolutely. I understand you';re going to be the first Australian Prime Minister to attend a royal funeral. Is that correct?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don';t think so but I don';t know that I';ve looked it up. I don';t know. I assume that Bob Menzies went to the late King';s, this lady';s late husband';s funeral fifty years ago. There haven';t too many in the [inaudible] they';re long livers.
ZEMANEK:
Is there a reason why the Governor General is not attending?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think it';s appropriate given the role of the Queen Mother and particularly the identification with her of many Australians of World War II generation, I think it';s appropriate that I represent the country and if I';m going it wouldn';t be appropriate for the Governor General to go as well. It would be unusual to have both of us at something like that. In fact there';s some kind of protocol that suggests you don';t have a Prime Minister and a Governor General simultaneously representing the country.
ZEMANEK:
After the funeral is there a possibility you might be talking with other Commonwealth leaders?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I think there';s a very strong possibility. The New Zealand Prime Minister I know is certainly going – Helen Clark.
ZEMANEK:
But will you be talking….
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I will take an opportunity to talk to her. In fact we';ve already discussed the possibility of this. I spoke to Helen Clark by telephone yesterday afternoon and we agreed to get together in London and if Jean Chrtien, the Canadian Prime Minister is there which I think is very likely, we';ll probably have a meeting the three of us, perhaps with the Commonwealth Secretary General to talk further about Zimbabwe. One of the by-products if I can put it that way of attendance at something like this is that it does give you unexpectedly the opportunity to have some, in the margins, discussions with people about a whole range of subjects. Now I don';t know precisely who';s going but I do know that Helen Clark will be there and probably Jean Chr tien and that will give the three of us at least an opportunity to talk further about Zimbabwe.
ZEMANEK:
When our cricket team pulled out a number of callers suggested that maybe wouldn';t it be a good idea if they actually banned Zimbabwe from going to the Commonwealth Games in Manchester.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that ultimately is a matter for the Commonwealth Games Federation. We cannot as governments, not in our kind of free society, stop people coming. But I wouldn';t be surprised, let me put it this way….
ZEMANEK:
Surely you could suggest ….
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look, I was just about to say I wouldn';t be surprised if pressure for that grows. I think pressure for that will grow.
ZEMANEK:
Well let';s hope so because I think there';s a lot of people out there who are calling for stiffer action when it comes to Zimbabwe. Just on another note the protestors at Woomera Detention Centre over Easter. I mean what';s your reaction to the whole lot? I mean you must have been horrified like every Australian was to see what was going on.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I deplore what they did. They behaved in a completely irresponsible way. They didn';t strike me as people who were genuinely and compassionately concerned. They struck me as a group of people who were trying to make a political protest and in the process willing to destroy Commonwealth property, willing to make life miserable and difficult and unpleasant for police officers. It';s hard enough as it is having to be on police duty in conditions such as that but then to subject the police officers to the sort of behaviour that they were subjected to, damage Commonwealth property, encourage people to break the law, encourage people to escape and in the process put their lives potentially at risk if they';re not….
ZEMANEK:
Do you think these people, the protestors I';m talking about now, do you think they should be fined severely as well as getting some sort of sentence because I mean after all they aided and abetted…?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think they have to be dealt with by the processes of the law and the law in this country prescribes certain penalties but it';s in the hands of magistrates and courts to impose sentences. It's not in the hands of the Prime Minister.
ZEMANEK:
Well the magistrate in South Australia has handed down a $500 fine for each of the so called asylum seekers who broke out of the detention centre…
PRIME MINISTER:
The asylum seekers?
ZEMANEK:
Well the so called asylum seekers. They';ve given them a $500 fine. [inaudible] say well that';s not enough.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah well look I don';t know the background. I haven';t read the judgement. I think it';s probably better that I don';t try and sit in judgement on those who are given the responsibility under our system of making decisions. The important thing is that the law has and should be applied. The other important thing is that those protestors have not helped the cause of the people who seek asylum. I think they have, if anything they have strengthened the resolve of the Australian people to support the Government';s policy. I really do.
ZEMANEK:
Well I think a lot of people will agree with you but I think that a lot of people also ask the question, you know, as far as the sentences in society these days that magistrates and judges are not tough enough on people and here is the perfect example. These people break out of detention, they';re fined $500, rapped over the knuckles and sent back to the detention centre.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I haven';t read the judgement and I don';t, you know, I understand the point you';re making Stan but not having read it I';m not going to pass judgement on the judgement without knowing a bit more about it.
ZEMANEK:
There was a lot of confusion there as well between the Federal Police and also the South Australian Police and I heard on the television, saw on the television the South Australian leader of the police at Woomera said that the Federal Police didn';t hand over jurisdiction until the riot started.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can';t answer that because that is really an operational police matter. It will have to be dealt with by the Commissioner of the Australian Federal Police. I';m very wary about commenting on operational police or military matters. There are always going to be areas of confusion and overlap and misunderstanding and communication breakdowns when you have law enforcement bodies from the state and federal level working together. I';ve never known a situation where you don';t occasionally have disagreements, you have one group saying well if they';d have told me a bit earlier I';d have done this and that. Overall I think both police forces have done an excellent job and I am full of respect for the job that the police have done. It';s very difficult work.
ZEMANEK:
They were outnumbered too weren';t they?
PRIME MINISTER:
They were outnumbered.
ZEMANEK:
They knew that the protest was going to take place yet they were still outnumbered.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah well look that is something that is I understand the subject of discussion and investigation but my view is that whether they';re State Police or Federal Police or Protective Service officers, they were all put in a very difficult position, they did an excellent job under trying circumstances and they have my thanks and my support. I want the Australian people to know that in situations like this I think the police do a fantastic job. They';re sorely provoked, they';re spat at, they';re abused, they';re called foul names, and they go ahead and do their job, but I think we ought to have a bit of… a bit of sympathy – I know you do, and I know many Australian listeners of this program do.
ZEMANEK:
Absolutely. Let';s just move on to the Middle East now. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said Israel was at war, and branded Yasser Arafat an enemy of the free world. Do you believe Arafat is an enemy of the free world?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I do believe that the Israelis understandably are retaliating for this sickening change – the sickening extent to which the conflict has worsened in recent weeks through this systematic pattern of suicide bombers – coming into large congregations and gatherings of people in Israel, blowing themselves up and in the process killing and maiming and blinding and injuring many other Israeli citizens.
ZEMANEK:
Do you think Arafat is behind this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, many of the groups that have claimed, or some of the groups that have claimed responsibility, are groups that have been identified in a number of cases a bit tangentially or peripherally with Arafat. I do believe that the Israelis are justified in asking him, requiring of him, demanding of him, that he do more to bring the terrorists under control. However, I have to say that a long term settlement in the Middle East has to involve a recognition of the aspirations of the people of Palestine for their own State. I remain mortified that a couple of years ago, the offer that was made by the then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, which was about 80 or 90 percent of what the Palestinians wanted, was not accepted. The biggest error, mistake – the greatest area of condemnation of Arafat was his failure back in the year 2000 to accept the offer that Barak was making then. He broke out of the strait jacket, he was prepared to go ahead of community opinion in Israel. He was prepared to offer the PLO more than what the Israeli Parliament and the Israeli people at that time, probably wanted to give.
ZEMANEK:
Has it gone too far now? I mean, politically can – can it be resolved?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you should never acknowledge in a situation like that, that it can';t be resolved. It has to be resolved.
ZEMANEK:
What would you do if you were running the whole – the ship over there.
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m not.
ZEMANEK:
I know that, but what would you do?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think what you have to do is to try and go back to something like what was on the table in – 18 months, 2 years ago. The sad thing is that because of what has happened, opinion on both sides has hardened, is the – I mean, you can understand, if you';re a citizen of Israel, you can';t go to a restaurant in a major city now without fear that someone is going to walk in with a bomb or a grenade around them and detonate it. I mean, it';s an awful situation and equally I read in the press this morning that public opinion in the areas around where Arafat is has soared in support of the suicide bombers. I mean, this is terrible. And I guess the other thing that I would say is that I do hope that, although feelings will run high in Australia on both sides of the debate, I do hope that people who feel very strongly about this issue remember that it';s occurring in the Middle East, and we don';t want – whilst people debate things strongly as you do in a democracy – we must remember that we are more than anything else, we';re all Australians on something like this and we don';t wish to unduly import those divisions into our country.
ZEMANEK:
If they killed Arafat, or as they';re talking now, isolating Arafat, they take him out of the picture – does that, does that resolve anything? Or [inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I';m certainly not advocating the killing of anybody. I';m not advocating his murder, I don';t, I would hope that doesn';t occur, you know I don';t want anybody else killed. There';s too many people died already.
ZEMANEK:
But Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon said that the biggest mistake he made in the 70s I think it was, was not killing Yasser Arafat in Lebanon.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I';ve read and heard that he said that. Well, I';m – you know, that';s his – that';s what he said. I';m not saying that. That';s his comments. I';m not anybody';s particular advocate or defender. I';m somebody who, like every other person, is distressed that it';s got as bad as it';s got. This is the worst I can remember the conflict being for 30 or 40 years.
ZEMANEK:
With this problem in the Middle East. It';s also causing a major problem for Mr Bush, because really he can't continue on with his battle against terror, can he? Because until he resolves this problem, or they resolve the problem with Yasser Arafat and whatever happens in the Middle East, they can';t continue to go into other countries while this is simmering along.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that doesn';t necessarily follow. I don';t - I don';t automatically agree with that. That doesn';t mean to say that I';m suggesting he';s going to, as you put it, go into another country –
ZEMANEK:
But they were talking about moving into Iraq though, weren';t they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, a lot of people were talking about that, and I';m not going to add to the speculation about that. But clearly it';s a challenge for the United States, because the United States is the one great superpower in the world and whenever there';s a trouble spot between two countries, or two groups of people that nobody else can solve, everybody turns around and says to the Americans, well you solve it. And sometimes the demands that are made on the United States in those situations are unreasonable. It';s a very major problem for the entire world, and most particularly for the United States. And -
ZEMANEK:
If they don';t – if they don';t solve the problem, if they can';t solve the problem, who can solve it? Because it';s obvious that both sides, with Arafat and Ariel Sharon, that they';re – they';re set against each other, and getting them to the table – the negotiating table, is going to be very difficult indeed.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Stan, I don';t have an immediate answer for that. I don';t think anybody has. I do know that the Americans will as always try very hard. I do also know that whenever something looks completely insoluble – often there is a glimmer of light and hope somewhere and most people would – around the world would dearly love that to be the case in relation to this dispute, and it is tragic beyond words that it has reached this sorry pass and I do hope, unlikely though it may now seem, that sanity prevails on both sides. But the sense of insecurity that must be felt by the people of Israel and also I acknowledge the sense of frustration that many people in – amongst the Palestinians would have felt, given what many of them hoped might have been the case a couple of years ago. In many – I';ve met a lot of people – I met Yasser Arafat in May of 2000 at a time when the prospects of peace were the best they';d been for 20 or 30 years. And there was a sense of hope and optimism at that time. And all of that fell to the ground, and I still for the life of me don';t understand why he didn';t accept the offer that was made by the Israelis then, because it was 80 to 90 percent of what they';d been seeking. And you probably won';t get that offer again in – certainly not in present circumstances – because many Israelis feel, well that offer was made, and that was knocked back, and now they';re doing – it';s a tragic situation.
ZEMANEK:
Just moving on to anther subject, which is near and dear to a lot of people';s hearts in Australia. Health insurance premiums, they';re increasing. I know when you were interviewed in the United States about this, you were horrified by it, but they are increasing.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I was horrified by the suggestion that Medibank Private would put its premiums up by 13 percent. I said that was a bit rich, and I understand that that increase was cut back to about 9 percent. Stan, we';ve got to get a bit of perspective about this. Nobody likes anything going up when they';ve got to pay for it. We';re all human. The increase has averaged 7 percent. There haven';t been increases, generally speaking, in this area for something like 2 years. Health – private health insurance is immeasurably cheaper than it would otherwise have been as a result of the Government';s 30 percent tax rebate.
ZEMANEK:
Will these insurance companies be allowed to merge? Because some of them are saying, well we';d like to merge to save costs.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they can merge now if they get the consent of the regulatory authorities, and we are looking at whether there should be any other changes. But I think everybody has to recognise that whenever you have some kind of market, it';s got to be able to operate freely and I don';t think the Government should be in there telling people how to conduct their commercial affairs. But equally the Government has a responsibility to the consumer to make certain that there';s adequate competition, because when you have adequate competition, you are more likely to have lower costs.
ZEMANEK:
Just on another matter, Opposition Leader Simon Crean has said in an interview with Channel 10 today, that you';re beatable at the next Federal election but he';d prefer to be up against Treasurer, Peter Costello. Is there a chance that Peter Costello will be there, and you may well retire?
PRIME MINISTER:
Stan, I was asked about all of this 6 months ago and – during the election campaign – and I think I said then that - and I';ll repeat – that a couple of years into my next term, and I';ve just started that term, I';ll think about my future. But that';s a long way off.
ZEMANEK:
You';ll think about the future?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, that';s what I said then. But I';m not saying I';m going to retire. I just said I';d think about the future.
ZEMANEK:
Will you see out this term?
PRIME MINISTER:
Stan, I answered that – what I said in the last – in the election campaign remains the position, when towards the end of next year – two years into my term, after I';ve turned 64, I';m going to have a look at it. I said I';d think about it. That doesn';t mean I';m going to give it away. There are a lot of things I';ll take into account. And I told the Australian people that before the election. I was completely open with them – and my position has not changed one millimetre, one iota, since then.
ZEMANEK:
Have you or Mr Costello had any meetings or discussions about the leadership in the last few months?
PRIME MINISTER:
No.
ZEMANEK:
None, whatsoever?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, we haven';t.
ZEMANEK:
Will you have any discussions –
PRIME MINISTER:
I don';t have any plan. No, why would I?
ZEMANEK:
Well, I just asked – I just asked the question.
PRIME MINISTER:
You cover every base, I know. I mean, I would be disappointed if you didn';t.
ZEMANEK:
Absolutely. Look, I know that you';re struggling there with a bit of a cough and a cold and I thank you for giving us so much time today, and appreciate it. And thank you very much, we';ll talk again.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay, thanks Stan. Bye.
[ends]