Subjects: Senator Heffernan; Zimbabwe
E&OE...........
JOURNALIST:
Just firstly can I ask you are you satisfied fully with Senator Heffernan';s explanation to the Senate?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I haven';t read it. I';ve just been given a report but I understand he';s given a very explicit and unconditional apology and I understand that Mr Justice Kirby has put out a statement accepting it. But I haven';t seen either statement. I';ve only just got here.
JOURNALIST:
Does that in your mind put the matter to bed?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well certainly it';s an important step in that direction. There';s been an unconditional apology given and that';s been accepted. But as I say I haven';t seen the wording of either of them but clearly Bill Heffernan had to apologise. He accepted that when I spoke to him just before I left Australia. He did do this off his own bat. He';s clearly come across some things that he';s had to make known to the police and to the Parliament. He';s apologised unreservedly as he should and the Judge has accepted that apology so in that sense I think we can move on.
JOURNALIST:
Did he at any time mention to you the information that he had that he was forwarding on to the police?
PRIME MINISTER:
He referred to it in general terms but that was information that came to him and over which he had control. I mean it';s not something…..
JOURNALIST:
Should he resign from the Senate?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don';t at this stage see any reason for him to resign from the Senate. He';s made a mistake, a serious mistake. He knows that, I know that, I told him that, and the Australian public knows that. But he';s been man enough to totally apologise which he should have and that apology has been accepted.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] by not acting on it quicker? I mean why did it take six days before….?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you know, hindsight';s a wonderful thing isn';t it Matt. You can always say if you';d have known this or that or something else it would have been different, you';d have done something otherwise. He made the statement originally without prior consultation, certainly without my approval and he would have known against my wishes. But having been made it was then obligatory on me to try and handle the thing in a practical way which I did. Events have unfolded which have led him to give the apology and as far as I';m concerned that was the thing he had to do. He is no longer a parliamentary secretary, he is no longer the Secretary to the Cabinet. He';s paid a price. You may remember, and I remind the media and others of this, that I said right at the beginning that he would be accountable in relation to what he said, the implication clearly being that if he got it wrong he would pay a price and he did get it wrong and he has paid a price.
JOURNALIST:
What about your own role? You [inaudible] information in your speech to Parliament. There have been calls for you to apologise as well.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I did what I';m required to do when I';m in Parliament and that is answer questions. I was asked questions by the Opposition Leader, and I try to answer questions and I didn';t do anything other than answer a question and part of that answer was referred to a letter that Senator Heffernan had sent me and which I';d tabled and once something is tabled privilege attaches to it. So the contents of that letter would have been available for publication so there';s no big deal in that at all.
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister, did you ask Senator Heffernan or anyone in your office ask him whether he had checked the authenticity of the evidence he was handing to the police?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don';t know whether anybody in his office…in my office, I have no idea about that, but the reality is that Senator Heffernan decided to make these allegations without reference to me or to my staff and we were essentially dealing with a fait accompli once he';d made the speech. As to whether somebody in my staff asked him that I don';t know.
JOURNALIST:
Did you ever ask him whether he was sure….?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I took the view once he';d made these statement that it had to be investigated by the police and there were certain things that you could ask and certain things you couldn';t ask. I mean you can';t have it both ways. You can';t say these things ought to go to the police and then expect me to run a parallel investigation. I am not a police officer and I don';t have trained police investigators on my staff and in those circumstances once an allegation of this kind has been made, when he made his speech without warning and without my sanction we talked about it, I took advice and the advice I got from my department and also from the Attorney General was that the matter, any additional material should be referred to the police and that';s what happened.
JOURNALIST:
….by suggesting for example that Justice Kirby could be examined on other than criminal grounds, that…
PRIME MINISTER:
No. You';re saying that I said…..what I said was in answer to questions about the status of judges. I talked about the concept, well it';s not a concept, it';s in the Constitution, of proved misbehaviour and that';s been extrapolated from the general to the particular.
JOURNALIST:
Zimbabwe Mr Howard. Will you be pressing for the suspension of Zimbabwe from the Commonwealth in your meeting this afternoon?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what I';ll be doing this afternoon is what I was asked to do, along with President Mbeki and President Obasanjo, and that is to look at the report of the Commonwealth observers and to apply the principles of Harare and of Millbrook. That';s my responsibility. It';s also their responsibility. You';ve got to go back to the Coolum Statement. We were mandated. That means we were authorised to take a decision on behalf of the Commonwealth when we';d been informed by the report of the observer group and we had to look at that against the background of what came out of Harare and what came out of Millbrook. Now as to what decision we take I don';t think I should try and pre-empt the meeting.
JOURNALIST:
Will you press for suspension Mr Howard?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I will do what I was asked to do and that is to apply the Harare-Millbrook principles in the light of the findings, which are pretty clear, from the observer group. I mean I';ve spoken to the four Australians who were in Zimbabwe and they gave me a detailed account in a telephone hook-up last Friday about their experiences and that will help me. But it';s a pretty comprehensive report and I think the three of us will look at it very carefully.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] crunch time for the Commonwealth, do you think this is crunch time?
PRIME MINISTER:
This a very important time. This is something of a moment of truth about its democratic principles. I mean there are certain things that bind the Commonwealth together. One of them is a common historical association and that';s very important, but the other thing which is equally important, equally important, is that we hold certain democratic principles very dear and they have to be applied in a consistent fashion. We can';t have selective democratic outrage in an organisation which is bound together by common principles.
JOURNALIST:
Australia';s position prior to [inaudible]. What would have changed [inaudible]?
PRIME MINISTER:
Hypothetical question Geof and you know my form on those. I tend to put the bat over the shoulder and let it go through.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] observer group….
PRIME MINISTER:
I';ve got a meeting this afternoon and it';s appropriate that I talk to my two Commonwealth colleagues before I start making any statements.
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister I understand that you don';t want to pre-empt the meeting but do you believe that South Africa has, by so strongly showing their support for Robert Mugabe since the election and also since that report of the observers?
PRIME MINISTER:
No.
JOURNALIST:
Do you not believe that you should apologise to Justice Kirby?
PRIME MINISTER:
The person who made the statements has apologised….
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I didn';t make the statement. And his honour has accepted that apology so the answer clearly is….
JOURNALIST:
Do have any personal message for the Judge?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well he';s a very good Judge. I wish him well. He has my confidence and I';m sure that he';ll continue to be a Judge of the High Court for so long as wishes to in accordance with the Constitution, which stipulates a retirement age. But I';m sure he';s got many years of judicial commitment to Australia left in him.
JOURNALIST:
Does Senator Heffernan still retain your respect and affection?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes. Look I don';t abandon friends easily. We all make mistakes. Nobody';s perfect and we can all be a little, sometimes we can make the mistake in public life of being a little too sanctimonious about things. Look Bill made a big mistake. He knows that and I';ve told him that, we all know it. But he was a friend of mine before he made the mistake and he';s still a friend of mine and if some people don';t like that well I';m sorry about it. But I don';t abandon mates just because they make mistakes but I am prepared to remove them from executive positions if I don';t believe they can continue to occupy those positions.
[ends]