Subjects: Iraq; Christmas break; terrorist threat; defence; Max Moore-Wilton; Iraq; tax deductions; defence spending
E&OE...........
BARTLETT:
We welcomed, as promised, the Prime Minister, John Howard';s here in Perth to officially welcome home the troops from Afghanistan, the SAS contingent. Prime Minister, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Liam, very nice to be back and welcome to all of your listeners.
BARTLETT:
Nice to see you here too.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
BARTLETT:
That takes place, the official welcome home takes place a bit later today does it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, in an hour or two's time, it';s an opportunity for me, along with the Defence Minister, the Acting Leader of the Opposition and some other colleagues and of course the Chief of the Defence Force and the Chief of the Army to welcome them home and to, I know, express the gratitude of all Australians for the fantastic job they have done in Afghanistan. They have won the admiration of the other coalition forces in Afghanistan and there';s certainly a great deal of respect for the quality of our special forces, this is a respect which is echoed whenever I talk to either President Bush or other senior people in the American administration. They';re a small group but they';re a very elite talented group of men and I thank them, it';s risky, fortunately, I mean we have had one death, one fatality and one serious injury, that';s too many but…
BARTLETT:
Compared to what it could be.
PRIME MINISTER:
Compared to what it could be, it';s an indication of just how skilful they are but it';s an indication that you can have your share of luck in these situations and you can';t always assume that that luck is going to continue.
BARTLETT:
Prime Minister a lot of talk yesterday as you know about whether they should be ready to roll again in March. What is the situation, has the Defence Force put those plans in place?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the Defence Force, as I indicated some weeks ago, has made contingency arrangements, that means its put certain arrangements in place in case they are called upon to commit forces and that';s the only sensible thing to do, it would be a pretty bad government and a pretty bad defence leadership that created a situation or allowed a situation to develop. But if you did make a call they then turn around and say well you should have warned us about the possibility of this some months ago and we';re not in a position in help. That kind of situation does obtain and …
BARTLETT:
Do those plans though come about through information that you get directly from the US or the UK, I mean, do they tell you, look, this is our contingency, therefore, you should have one in place?
PRIME MINISTER:
It's an independent decision. We don't get told by the Americans or the British what arrangements to make, heavens no. We are aware of the possibility that there may be military action in Iraq. I hope it doesn't happen. I hope the UN process works. It is still being worked through. We have a very strong preference for the UN process working its way through and if…
BARTLETT:
It's not sounding positive, though, is it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, to date it's not promising but we still have a while to go yet. The initial reaction of the Americans and the British, having looked at the Iraqi documents, is that there are a number of omissions. We'll know more in the days ahead but we have not, as a government, taken any decision to commit forces. Contingency arrangements have been made, that is only sensible, but I hope it doesn't go beyond that and I think all Australians hope that.
BARTLETT:
Is the Australian Government, your administration, privy to the same intelligence information as the US and UK governments are in relation to the public statements we're hearing at the moment? For example, the statement from Jack Straw overnight - he was saying that Saddam Hussein is guilty of an obvious falsehood, in other words, a lie, about his claim that Iraq stopped producing weapons of mass destruction a long time ago. Do we get the same intel as that?
PRIME MINISTER:
We share intelligence, yes.
BARTLETT:
So you would share Jack Straw's opinion…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I haven't had an opportunity because I've only just heard of that statement overnight. I haven't had an opportunity to analyse the basis of that claim so I can't say that I agree with it 100%. I'm not saying I disagree with it but I just haven't seen the information. Generally speaking, though, we have common intelligence. We have a very close intelligence relationship with both the Americans and the British. We show them ours and vice versa and it works very well and very effectively.
BARTLETT:
It's pretty strong stuff, though, isn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes but we're dealing with somebody who has a track record of deception. I mean, everybody, including countries that aren't very supportive of the Americans on this issue, agreed in the Security Council that there should be another attempt made by the weapons inspectors. And in that resolution that was carried in the Security Council there was unanimous condemnation of Iraq's earlier failures to comply with Security Council resolutions. I mean, of course it's strong stuff but you're not dealing here with a walk in the park.
BARTLETT:
No, no, but they've only been going for a couple of weeks, the weapons inspectors that is.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, they have.
BARTLETT:
It seems on the eve of Christmas and, I suppose, this is what worries a lot of people, it seems as though, from statements coming out of the US and the UK, the decision's been made a long time ago - they're going to go in no matter what. That's the sort of overall perception that seems to be portrayed.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, some people may have that impression. My knowledge is that they have not made a final decision. It is not just a matter of going through the process. There is a lot of support in the United States Administration and there's a lot of support in the Australian Government, including from me, very strongly, to see that the United Nations process is given a fair go to work. Now, it may in the end not work and there may, in the end, be arguments at the margin as to whether Iraq has complied or has not complied or has not fully complied with the terms of the UN resolution. Now, they are things that we have to deal with as we proceed. But anybody who thinks that we're just going through the motions of the UN are wrong, we're not. How it will play out, I don't know at this stage and the only thing I can do is tell the Australian public that, ensure that if there is some call on the Australian Defence Forces as part of a Coalition action, then they are ready and that is why contingency arrangements have been put in place. And the other comment I'd make is that if we were to get involved at the end of this process in some kind of military action, and that is completely hypothetical at this stage because no decision has been taken, we would not commit such a level of forces as to in any way weaken our capacity to deal with challenges or eventualities nearer to home. Our first requirement, our first obligation, our first response obviously is the challenges at home.
BARTLETT:
Talking about at home, with all this going on in the world being [inaudible] at the moment, do you get a chance to have a Christmas break over Christmas?
PRIME MINISTER:
I will be spending Christmas at Kirribilli House with my family and I'll be having a bit of a break in the early weeks of January. I'll be on duty until New Years eve.
BARTLETT:
[Inaudible] being sort of relaxed with a pair of thongs on at Hawks Nest.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, no, no, not this year. That hasn't been the case for a couple of years. I mean, I'll have a holiday in the first few weeks of January but if I have to interrupt it, I will, and I'm going to spend my holiday in Sydney. Somebody like myself who's travelled around the world so much necessarily over the last few months, the thought of packing up and going away again is the last thing I want. I'm perfectly happy to stay at home. There is a thing called a fifth trigger Test or the New Year Test at the Sydney Cricket Ground and despite the fact that the Ashes has already been decided, it's a sell-out and there's still a lot of interest in the series.
BARTLETT:
It's a good event, isn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
It's a great event.
BARTLETT:
Prime Minister, the terrorist booklet that's been talked about, 'how to identify a terrorist' or something similar, will that be distributed before Christmas?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I'll be saying a bit more about this tomorrow but the way it's all working out, that's something that's more likely for the New Year. But what I can say in relation to that issue is that later this morning, along with the Defence Minister and the Chief of the Defence Force, I will be announcing a very significant reorganisation and upgrading of capacity in relation to Australia's special forces. And this bears very directly on our capacity to deal with threats of terrorist and, indeed, other kinds. We've had, in the wake of what occurred in Bali, we have, over the weeks that have gone by, looked at what needed to be done and what needed to be reprioritised. We've put more resources into intelligence gathering. You haven't probably heard the last word on that either. And today I'll be announcing, as a result of a Cabinet discussion a few days ago, some changes which will greatly increase and focus and strengthen our special forces capacity and it's appropriate that that be said here in Western Australia, which of course is the headquarters of the SAS.
BARTLETT:
Are we talking about expanding the SAS [inaudible]?
PRIME MINISTER:
We're talking about increased capacity and also some organisational changes. I'll say more about it later this morning with Senator Hill and with General Cosgrove.
BARTLETT:
I did want to ask you in relation to that - and we talked on the programme last week about this new Transnational Coordination Centre in Canberra, which is along similar lines you're talking about, expanding the intelligence quotient. But in terms of the military part, I mean, are those plans part of an overall option to centralise the military component in the National Capital, in Canberra?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think with these things you need both centralisation and decentralisation. You need the decision making process to be coordinated and centralised, but you want the response capacity to be as decentralised as appropriate. Australia is a very big country. You can';t have everything in Canberra and Sydney. And one of the things we';ve tried to do is to ensure that the defence capacity of this country is spread around because…
JOURNALIST:
But it would make sense, wouldn';t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
The decision making process has to be centralised but in a way the physical location of a decision making process is less relevant now than it used to be because we have such superb communication. And I find now when I go overseas as Prime Minister, what used to be called the London convention – and that is you didn';t comment on a domestic matter while you were overseas – has gone by the board. And the reason for that is that you know immediately because of communications what people have said in another part of the world and your excuse for not commenting on it is gone. So the world we live in now because of communications means that you can have a person in Cairns, a person in Bunbury and a person in Alice Springs and somebody in Sydney and Canberra, they can get together with a secure communications facility and they can have a meeting and make a decision.
JOURNALIST:
But in the terms of the SAS repelling down buildings and that sort of thing, you';ve still got the four hour flight to Canberra, haven';t you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that';s why one of the counter-terrorism response groups… we talked about stationing that in Sydney.
JOURNALIST:
Our talkback lines are open. If you';d like to talk to the Prime Minister – 9484 1720 or 1800 626 720 in country WA. Prime Minister, the departure of Max Moore-Wilton has raised a number of questions, not the least of which of course also comes back once again to talk about your retirement and speculation about that. You must be sick of it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don';t mind people asking me questions about that. Max';s departure really has no bearing on my future. He told me after the last election that at some time during this term, he would hope to return to the private sector. He came from the private sector, having previously come from the public sector, and he';s a very good example of what I think will be an increasing trend and a desirable trend – and that is greater interchangeability between people in the public and the private sector. We';ve got to break down this notion that you should spend your whole life in the public service and not be exposed to the private sector, or spend your whole life in the private sector and not be exposed to the public. I think it';s quite good to have people going in and out. And Max was in the Department of Trade and he became Deputy Secretary of Primary Industries. He then went into statutory authorities. He worked for the New South Wales Government – both Labor and Liberal. He was in private enterprise when he came back to the public service six and a half years ago, and now he';s returning to private enterprise. So I think that is good and if you want a modern, relevant public service, you';ve got to have more of that, not less of it.
JOURNALIST:
You';ve been fairly tight though – you and him. I mean has he decided to go now because he knows that you';re about to go?
PRIME MINISTER:
No he';s always intended to do a number of years and then go back to the private sector. Max has been a great Secretary of the Department and he has been my chief public service adviser, not my only adviser. The people who are on my personal staff, particularly my Chief of Staff Arthur Sinodinos and Principal Private Secretary Tony Nutt, they';re very close and very important advisers. But they operate in my personal office and then I have of course organisational advisers and you have public service advisers but…
JOURNALIST:
It makes no difference to your [inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
No it has no bearing at all. I understand why people raise the issue but it really has absolutely no bearing at all.
JOURNALIST:
They';ve been talking about your retirement for years. It';s becoming like blue hills isn';t it, talking about your retirement plans?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well life goes on.
JOURNALIST:
I notice the Greens want a cooling off period, asking for a cooling off period between senior public servants leaving their public office and moving into the private sector. That sounds reasonable, doesn';t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well if there were a possibility of, or a reality of the conflict of interest, it might do. But you';ve got to look at each case. In the case of Moore-Wilton, he';s going to head the Airports Corporation. He played no role at all in the sale of the airport by the Commonwealth. In any event, may I say, the public servants who did play a role in the sale of that airport did a very good job for the Australian taxpayer because nobody has suggested that the Commonwealth didn';t get a good price.
JOURNALIST:
But it is all about perception, isn';t it? It';s like Peter Reith and Tenix. I mean…
PRIME MINISTER:
Can I just… Max was not involved in any way in discussions with that company in relation to the sale of the airport – not at all. And that has been certified to me in writing by the Secretary of the Department of Finance and I';ve been made that letter available in Canberra this morning, so any suggestion that he in some way manipulated things so that he would win favour because he was helpful in relation to the sale, that is completely false. In any event, he wasn';t approached about this job until well after the sale had taken place. Unless you adopt the attitude that people should never sort of go between the public and the private sectors, you';ll always be able, if you were of that kind of mind, conjure up some suggestion of a conflict of interest. But I would say to the Greens – give us your evidence of what the conflict is, because on the facts known to me there is no conflict of interest.
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister, we';ll take some calls in just a second.
[commercial break]
JOURNALIST:
21 minutes past 9. We';re talking with the Prime Minister John Howard on the program, and let';s take some calls from around the State from our listeners Prime Minister. Hello Bill, how are you?
CALLER:
Good morning Mr Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
How are you Bill?
JOURNALIST:
I';ve got a question that disturbed me. I';m old enough to remember Vietnam. I';ve got two grown sons. I wanted to ask you a question. The United Nations, right, has a policy and it seems to me, and you';re much closer than I am, that George Bush has another policy, and this very much reminds me of former President Mr Kennedy who said that we will send [inaudible] to Vietnam, we will take back Cuba and we will then deny in the United Nations we got into all that, and we know the result of that. We have to ask you, all people who have sons or whatever – will you, right, stay with the United Nations and not let George Bush say well this is a policy that I want to overturn this man no matter what they find, you know if they find the results that aren';t suitable to him, I will bypass them, I will send in a fleet, you know I';ll send in a sort of gun boat policy. It';s really unacceptable to most people. We don';t want that.
PRIME MINISTER:
Bill, this matter is being worked through the United Nations as a result of the Americans deciding to go back to the United Nations. The United Nations would not be involved in this if President Bush had not gone to the General Assembly on the 12th of September and basically challenged them to get interested in it again because Iraq has been in breach of United Nations resolutions now for many years. Now the question of what happens if something doesn';t occur or does occur through the United Nations is at this stage hypothetical, I want it resolved through the United Nations, all people do, you do, and I';m working to that end. Now the question of how it all pans out is something I don';t know at the moment, I don';t think anybody does but everybody hopes that it can be done through the United Nations. The question of what Australia might do in particular circumstances is one that I can only answer when those circumstances arise. It doesn';t help the process of United Nations authority on this matter for me to start talking about what might happen if the United Nations authority is not sufficient to solve the problem, I don';t think that helps the United Nations at all.
BARTLETT:
Thanks for your call Bill. Nicola, good morning.
CALLER:
Good morning. Prime Minister, I just wanted to ask the question of whether you would think that having 5,000 US personnel in Perth over Christmas and New Years with the Abraham Lincoln boat coming in makes Perth a terrorist target and what sort of contingency plans are in place given that a lot of sort of police stations and other community services that don';t seem to have any sort of emergency plan and the US Abraham Lincoln has two nuclear reactors on boat just in case there';s some kind of terrorist attack and a nuclear accident.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t talk about whether this or that vessel has nuclear capacity or not, that';s been a longstanding policy of Australian Governments not to do that, we have a policy of welcoming visits from US Naval assets and people. I don';t believe that it significantly adds to Perth as a terrorist target, Americans have always been welcome in Australian cities, very welcome and I';m sure the people of Perth will give a traditional Australian welcome to the sailors from the American vessels.
CALLER:
But in this climate of a US lead war against…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there is no war at the moment, there is no war.
CALLER:
… (inaudible) but it could…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it could…
BARTLETT:
… talk about, you could argue there';s a war against terror.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there';s certainly a war against terror and I hope we';re all part of that because we';ve been hurt by terrorists very badly and Australia has an interest in fighting terrorism and anybody who thinks by rolling ourselves into a little ball and disappearing and pretending we don';t exist, that we can buy immunity from terrorism, they';re kidding themselves.
BARTLETT:
Are you confident though all the State Governments are up to speed with that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let me say yes. I want to co-operate with the states on this, this is an issue that transcends politics and we had a very constructive meeting in Canberra and we';re working with them and I believe that they are all genuine in wanting to work with the Federal Government. Naturally we have to take the lead on it because it';s a national challenge but the role of the State Governments is very important.
BARTLETT:
Alright Nicola, thanks for your call. Hello Phil.
CALLER:
Yeah good morning Liam, how are you?
BARTLETT:
Good thanks.
CALLER:
Look seasons greetings to yourself and the Prime Minister. Mr Prime Minister the question I would like to ask is in relation to the supposedly Budget surpluses. Now I just can';t comprehend how yourself and previous incumbent governments say you had surpluses when there';s continuingly lists that are waiting all the time for services that you';re obligated to provide. Now having said that, now why is that such that you have a surplus then you go back each time you';re a bit short and ask people for levies. Now I run a small business, now if I ask someone $8 for a loaf of bread one week and I';m a bit short next week and I ask for $10, I wouldn';t survive would I?
PRIME MINISTER:
No they';d go to somebody else who';d still sell it to them at $8, that';s absolutely right. But we don';t do this all the time, come on.
CALLER:
… Mr Howard based on the information we have all these additional levies, now how do you think I feel as a family man, now if people are given a grant up to $14,000 when it';s started, specifically in relation to a purchase of a home and myself that';s paid taxes all my life and can';t get nothing. Now if you were going to be fair and equitable why wouldn';t you make a deduction available to everybody at $14,000 – that would boost the economy.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well given that we have very low interest rates and given that unlike most other countries that do have tax deductions for mortgage interest on their home, we don';t have a capital gains tax on the family home and have no intention of introducing one. I don';t think you could justify having a general tax deduction for interest payments. In relation to the first home owners grant that was bought in specifically as part of the GST change and to ensure that the impact of the GST in relation to new homes, because we were applying it, didn';t have an adverse affect on the industry. Now there was a transitional effect greater than we expected and for a sort period of time we doubled it from seven to 14, its now gone back to seven and it was a huge success that doubling, I mean really gave a super charge to the building industry, all over the country. And for the amount of money involved, if I can use a vernacular, we got a bigger bang for the buck on that particular measure than just about any other individual budget measure that I';ve been associated with as Prime Minister, it was a riproaring success for homebuyers, for the economy and for the housing industry.
BARTLETT:
Okay Phil, thanks for calling. Hello Alan.
CALLER:
Good morning Liam, and good morning Prime Minister. Just a question Mr Howard on your thoughts in regard to the report that was recently published about perhaps our priorities for defence needs to be refocussed and that some of the military budget should in fact go back into hospitals. Just your thoughts on that please.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I saw that report, I don';t agree with that, I am not going to cut the military budget. What we are looking at though is whether within the overall Budget, either as it is now or what it might be in the future, and there';s always the possibility that it could be made larger, within that overall military budget there may be a case for spending the money on different things as a result of our changed circumstances. There';s now obviously a great impact on, a greater influence for counter-terrorism and some of our priorities may have changed as a result of what occurred in Bali and the assessment we make in the wake of that and the potential difficulties we may have in our own region and the impact of all of those things on what we might want to do in association with our allies in the future.
BARTLETT:
Have we got any money left for maternity leave? Paid maternity leave?
PRIME MINISTER:
Different subject, that';s something we will look at as part of the family work balance that we';re also examining. But we won';t be cutting military spending, we could increase it. We will certainly be looking at whether what we spend it on might now be a little different from what it was likely to be prior to Bali and also prior to the 11th of September.
BARTLETT:
Alright, Prime Minister, we';re out of time, we';ll finish Audrey. Hello Audrey.
CALLER:
Good morning to you both. Prime Minister, I';d like to say to you and to your family and your wife, who I think does a wonderful job, a very happy Christmas and to thank you for being the best Prime Minister that Australia';s ever had, you are the greatest.
BARTLETT:
I didn';t realise you had relations on this side of the country!
CALLER:
How 'bout that coming from the ABC.
PRIME MINISTER:
It';s a season of good will, I love youse all!
CALLER:
Everything you do, you';ve given us stability, you';ve given us security and we';ve never felt so good for many many years. Thank you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that';s very kind of you Audrey, thank you very much, merry Christmas to you.
BARTLETT:
I';m pleased to report there';s a slight blush there Audrey, slight reddish tinge.
CALLER:
I must admit Liam you';ve been a real gentlemen to him.
BARTLETT:
Oh you';re (inaudible) today, I';ll have to change my way…
PRIME MINISTER:
Don';t say that to him.
CALLER:
Happy Christmas to you all at the ABC.
BARTLETT:
Thanks Audrey, same to you. And Prime Minister on that note, have a good Christmas.
PRIME MINISTER:
You too and the same for all your listeners and a peaceful one for all Australians.
BARTLETT:
We';ll see you in the new year.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay, thanks.
[ends]