Subjects: Bali
E&OE...........
MITCHELL:
On the phone now from Bali is the Prime Minister, Mr Howard good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Neil.
MITCHELL:
Do you think Prime Minister we';ve now lost that Australian attitude, she';ll be right mate, we';ll be okay? The she';ll be right attitude';s gone now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well yes and no, I think people perhaps may not be as carefree as they were before but I don';t believe that the young will stop travelling, they';ll travel perhaps with a greater feeling of caution. I hope they don';t lose that spirit of adventure, I can';t ever see that changing. But this event has changed our country, it is the hardest week we';ve had in decades, I think you said in 50 years, that';s not far wrong. It';s the biggest loss of Australian life outside a war, in a single incident. It has, in the eyes of many, destroyed an idea that somehow or other it wouldn';t touch us. Although intellectually we would say oh yes it could happen here, I don';t think deep down until it as actually happen that you can really believe in your heart that it will happen here. Now it';s happened here, not in literal sense, but gee, Bali is as close to here as you can get.
MITCHELL:
Have you shed a tear personally?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh of course. I haven';t been through a more emotional week in the whole time I';ve been in public life. I just feel so desperately sorry for what these people have suffered, the obscenity of it, the barbarism of it is just horrific. But it';s what terror is and is like and it is a worldwide illness, it';s not just in isolated parts of the world and we now have to confront in our own region, and I don';t want to detract for a moment from the seriousness of it, in fact I underline the seriousness of the warning that the Foreign Minister issued yesterday, it is undesirable for people to go to Indonesia for security reasons, I';m sorry to say that because I feel for our friends in Indonesia and there are many of them but it is simply not wise to go there and if you can make arrangements to come back you should do so as soon as possible.
MITCHELL:
Is the threat in Indonesia specifically towards Australians?
PRIME MINISTER:
It';s specific to all westerners, a general threat of increased terrorist behaviour and as I';ve said repeatedly it has an anti-western connotation and because we are amongst the most numerous of the westerners in Indonesia it is in that sense particularly concerning to Australia. But it';s not accurate to say that over time the intelligence reporting has particularly singled out Australians, if anything that hasn';t been the case, if anything the singling out over time has been in relation to American interests in particular and sometimes also British. But the reality is, as distinct from intelligence, the reality is that terrorism has an anti-western flavour and we are westerners and we are very numerous in Indonesia and we just have to understand that we are in a new ball game.
MITCHELL:
Do we have to also accept the possibility, the likelihood or even the certainty of further terrorist attacks in this region?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes, I think further terrorist attacks in the region are very likely, very likely. And well there was one yesterday in the Philippines. We do have to accept that. I mean it gives me no joy of any description to say this but we really do and the warning is clear and simple, it is dangerous and people should avoid going to Indonesia unless they don';t believe it is unavoidable and they should, if they are there and particularly people who are there for a short period of time, they should consider bringing forward their return home plans.
MITCHELL:
Do you as yet have any indication as to who is responsible? Is it an Al Qaeda backed attack?
PRIME MINISTER:
It';s too early to assess that with confidence, there';s just a lot of work being done. The pattern is very similar, the use of the explosive device of enormous velocity in a public place and designed to inflict the maximum damage in the cruellest possible fashion.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister I imagine your security people weren';t all that keen on you going there, do you feel that is sort of the front line where you are?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I have to come, I wanted to come and it';s what the country I know wanted done. Look it';s certainly, there';s no doubt in my mind that this part of the world is now very vulnerable to terrorism, I don';t want to sound over-alarmist but it has happened and it';s claimed our own and when that has occurred against all hope and expectation you have to change your attitudes.
MITCHELL:
Did the service last night help people do you believe?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I hope it did, that';s all I can say. I went there hoping that I could say something, words can only ever be of minimal comfort at a time like this and you can only try and articulate what the nation is feeling and you can just, by your presence and by your words and by your willingness to listen, to try and offer some comfort to people but it';s a miserable and wretched agony that they';re going through.
MITCHELL:
Were you able, are you able to help in any way the frustration that people are feeling on the identification in getting the bodies home? I know that was concerning you as well when you went there.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I had a very long talk last night, after the service I spent a lot of time with the families and after they all had gone I then had a lengthy meeting with the Ambassador and all the people in charge of the various aspects of the operation. Look the identification is the hardest thing and there is, so I';m told and I';ll be meeting families again later this morning, there is a greater understanding of the necessity to go through the process. They';re accelerating that as much as possible, the DNA samples have been collected by various police forces around Australia from families and they';re being sent to Bali and it will still be some time before you get, if I can put it this way, a significant number of positive identifications. Remember Childers, it was two weeks and there were 16 people only, tragic though that it is, but 16 compared with the vast number here. I am satisfied and I am under the impression talking to people that difficult though it is, there is an understanding that this process has to be gone through.
MITCHELL:
Do you believe there is a realistic chance of catching the perpetrators?
PRIME MINISTER:
I can';t say Neil. I think it will be very difficult because you';re dealing with a problem in another country. We don';t control the investigation. I';m not saying if we did it would automatically result in the capture of a person but there were some indifferent attitudes taken towards the crime scene just after it was sealed off properly and a few things like that. So I think that probably has hampered the investigation but there is a lot of cooperation between our people and the Indonesians and they have a joint team and Mick Keelty the Federal Police Commissioner was at the meeting last night and I';m pretty satisfied that the arrangements now are good. I think it will be very hard. I don';t want to raise expectations but we will do everything we humanly can. We will commit all the resources we can marshal in order to achieve that result.
MITCHELL:
If the perpetrators can be caught, would Australia argue for execution as a punishment?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I think the way in which we would deal with the people… they have to be obviously they have to be prosecuted under Indonesian law and offhand I';m not quite sure what Indonesian law provides for. But let me put it this way, I don';t think Australia will want much mercy being shown to them.
MITCHELL:
Well again I';ve discussed it before. I know you normally oppose capital punishment.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, can I tell you I haven';t thought of that. I am normally opposed, yes that is my normal view. This is anything but a normal situation. I think perhaps I can address that when they';re caught.
MITCHELL:
How do you react when some people say you';re responsible for these deaths?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I understand that my critics – some of them will say that. They';re wrong. The suggestion is that because of our alliance with the United States, because we';ve taken a strong line against terrorism, because what we support what the Americans and the British are trying to do in Iraq – that argument is wrong. It';s a morally bankrupt argument. It also makes the completely inaccurate argument that in some way you can buy yourself immunity if you roll yourself into a little ball and go over in the corner and say nothing about evil things and do nothing about evil things. Terrorists don';t dispense violence according to some hierarchy of disdain. They don';t operate that way. And there are so many examples of people… I mean what have these Balinese people done? I mean their lives were claimed.When Al Qaeda blew up the American Embassy in Nairobi in 1998, there were 253 Kenyans died and 19 Americans. So they were caught up in it. And other western countries who perhaps haven';t been as upfront in some of the things they have said and done as Australia has been – I mean there were 20 German tourists killed in a synagogue in Tunisia and a lot of French people and the list goes on.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, we are almost out of time. I know that you';re wearing the wattle and that';s a magnificent symbol. People are talking about the need to take another step with either symbols or donations. Do you think we should have a symbolic donation to achieve something? If so, what?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well one thing I do have in mind, I mentioned in Parliament the other day, and this is not the end of it, but I think one of the things we do need to do is to have a gesture of thanks to the people of Bali. Because with a very inadequate medical service with an enormous disaster to cope with, they';ve responded wonderfully. And I do intend after the immediate challenge has been dealt with, I do intend to announce something that will be a lasting, practical memorial to all of the people. And I think one of the things that we can do is to help the people here because it is a struggling part of the world, they';re battling with a huge tragedy, they';re distraught, their economy is going to be very badly affected by this – they live on tourism, and naturally our own grief and suffering we have to understand their feelings. But there are other things that… symbols are important and I thought the wattle was a nice symbolic way of perhaps bringing us all together as best we can, not only on Sunday but throughout the weeks and the months ahead because we do need people to work together. Not to forget their differences and other things – that';s unrealistic. We';re a democracy. We always have robust differences of opinion and that';s what makes us different and distinctive, and what makes a terrific country. We need to work to sort of work together through the grieving process and the whole impact that this has had on our nation.
MITCHELL:
Are we looking for the spirit of Gallipoli, the spirit of Kokoda?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t think we';ve ever lost it. And can I say that I was inspired, if I can put it that way – the spirit of the people last night. They';d lost everything in an emotional sense so many of them. Talking to them afterwards, it was a very humbling experience. They';d lost so much. I just admire their spirit and they were saddened and emotional, which we all would be in similar circumstances. But there was a sense their spirit hasn';t been broken and quite a number of them said they would come back to Bali and that spirit has never been lost. Something like this, awful it is, it does bring people together and it allows them to communicate with each other in an Australian way that we all know is special and different, I don';t think we';ve ever lost it. It';s always been in us, that spirit and it comes out at a time like this. But the dimension of this horror is still something that I think the community will take a long time to grasp, to fully absorb and it will change us. I don';t believe it will break or weaken our spirit but it will change us. And it won';t alter the fundamental character of the Australian people.
MITCHELL:
Thank you very much for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thanks.
[ends]