Subjects: PIF; governance; foreign aid; Zimbabwe; Iraq; Telstra.
E&OE...........
….from what I said at the lunch which a number of you were at is that I had a very good bilateral meeting with the Prime Minister of Fiji this morning. There';s clearly been total restoration of the very close bilateral relationship. I think what';s been done here in Fiji given what happened two years ago is a model for many of the parts of the Pacific that are struggling with governance challenges and the Fijian Government and those responsible ought to be complimented. That';s not to say there don';t remain continuing areas of debate within the country - which I don';t intend to comment on - but, when one considers what occurred two years ago and the response of the Commonwealth and Australia';s response, they';ve all come a long way and that is a cause of real satisfaction.
The Prime Minister did indicate to me today that he thought the role played by the Commonwealth in bringing about a restoration of democratic government in this country was quite crucial and he was very appreciative of it. And I';d be very happy to answer questions about anything you like.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] this morning held a press conference with the Prime Ministers of the Cook Islands and Tuvalu and they voted to get Australia [inaudible] treaty. [inaudible] put to them the figures that Mr Downer and Kemp [inaudible]. They said that still wasn';t good enough. I';d like your response on that and I';d also like to ask you an associated question. Do you think Fiji';s claims about islands going into the Pacific are exaggerated?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, let me say that I don';t think the differences between the member states of the forum on this issue are as great as sometimes believed and said and reported. We all agree that climate change is a huge challenge and we all agree that there is, well I certainly accept that there is evidence of global warming. I think everybody sensibly who addresses this subject does and it';s something that';s got to be dealt with over a period of time. We are unwilling for national interest reasons to sign up to Kyoto at present because of the absence of the developing countries and the United States. But we are committed to meeting our obligations under Kyoto and that';s been reaffirmed by Mr Downer and Dr Kemp and I do so as well. We';re within striking distance on the figures available of that already.
JOURNALIST:
And on the question of exaggerated claims…..
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can understand the concerns of the Pacific islands about this issue. Also though I think we have to be careful we don';t dwell on the differences. And we';re not really in dispute about the need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] accept that sea levels are rising as a result….?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there is some scientific material to support that but I';m not a scientist. But I';ve read a number of studies and some of them indicate that and some of them are more equivocal.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] talked about the return to constitutional government here as being a model. Of course Mr Choudrey would say that Fiji still hasn';t returned to full constitutionality [inaudible] party with something like 27 seats hasn';t been allowed to join the government….
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I understand that';s subject of a court case at the present time. I mean everything Geoffrey is relative. I mean spoke to Mr Choudrey at lunch today and in fact I maintained close contact with Mr Choudrey during the difficult days a couple of years ago. When you look at other governments'; challenges around the region, when I spoke of model think of where Fiji was a couple of years ago compared to where it is now. That';s the point I';m making. I mean what I sought to say at the lunch today and I repeat here today is that the biggest challenge for countries in this region, the number of countries in this region is the challenge of either restoring or achieving good governance because unless you have good governance you won';t attract investment and you won';t be able to sustain improvements and living standards and that';s just a reality. And increasingly there is going to be a linkage between aid and good governance. This is occurring in Africa. The whole Mipad plan is based upon the notion of aid and good governance being linked and sensible leaders in this region recognise that. Now we';re very sympathetic and we';re very supportive. Australia is a huge aid donor to this region and we';ll continue to be a very strong supporter. But the point I';m making is that unless governance is focused upon, and this is a view I know the Prime Minister of Fiji shares, unless it is focused on then the future is not good. Now my references to a model were in that context. I mean you can argue that by the yardstick of perfection and by the yardstick of some other countries people may want additional things done in Fiji but there has been a restoration and there has been a government that';s been elected by the majority. There is a court case pending. I';m quite certain that whatever the outcome of that court case that it';ll be dealt with.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] Secretary General of the forum with the Fiji Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes we did. There seems to be a difference, I mean it';s a fairly gentle difference, difference of view as to whether there was years ago an understanding that you couldn';t have an Australian or a New Zealander or a Fijian because the forum headquarters were in Suva and because Australia and New Zealand were the sort of economically the strongest countries. We have searched our records and the recollection of those who';ve been around for a long time and there';s no evidence available of that, and our view is that the best person should be chosen and I don';t regard it as a forum breaker. It';s something, it';s an important issue but it';s not, as I say it';s not a forum breaker issue.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] have a strong view….
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah look I understand that, I do understand that. But I think it';s always a good idea to sort of in this age of, quite properly of not discriminating against people on the grounds of where they come from it';s always a good idea to maintain the merit principle. I';m sure that';s something that all of you ladies and gentlemen would assert very strongly.
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister, you seem to have suggested in one of your earlier answers that Australia will be putting some sort of conditionality on aid and that conditionality will relate to good governance. If the worst case in the region is Solomon Islands, what conditions would you be thinking of for the continuation of aid to the Solomons? What good governance?
PRIME MINISTER:
Geoffrey I think you';re running a long way a head. There';s an issue that I';ve put on the table. That';s what I';ve done, and that is that good governance is absolutely crucial and I think increasingly there will be pressure to link financial assistance to improvements in governance. Now I';m not saying it automatically follows from that, that we';re going to stipulate this and this and this in relation to any individual country. I';m making the observation that increasingly donor countries, whether they';re Australia or Europe or the United States, are going to want recipient countries to address governance issues as a condition of receiving aid. Now it doesn';t follow from that that we';re going to, I can say quite specifically we';re not stipulating any conditions in relation to current aid to countries in the Pacific region but I am indicating that there will be a, I believe a trend towards that in the time ahead.
JOURNALIST:
Is that the single biggest thing that you';d like to see come out of this forum, some sort of commitment to better governance?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes absolutely. I think it is the key. You can';t attract foreign investment, you can';t even maintain the foreign investment you';ve got, you can';t even attract domestic investment if you don';t have proper standards of law and order and governance. It just won';t happen and there';s really not much point pretending otherwise and just sort of going on as though it';s not an issue. I mean it';s an issue everywhere. It';s an issue in Africa, it';s an issue in the Pacific, and those countries that have addressed issues of governance are those countries that have developed far more rapidly. Now I acknowledge it is not easy and there';s an immense well of understanding and sympathy in Australia for it but you have to also recognise the reality that unless you have basic standards of law and order and governance it';s very hard to keep anything together and that';s really is the point that I';m making . I think it';s a point that';s clearly recognised in a country like Fiji and Fiji';s addressed it and the countries that are doing relatively better are those that have addressed it.
JOURNALIST:
Do want the forum to fomalise that in some way…..
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I';m not….we';ll see what emerges but I think the governance issue is tremendously important. I mean the Biketwa declaration of a couple of years ago was really in that same context.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] do you think things have been getting noticeably worse and how serious do you think the problem [inaudible] governance are in the Pacific?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it varies a bit. I mean you';ve had some good news and some not so good news and I think what';s happened in Fiji over the last couple of years is a good news story by and large considering where things were two years ago. Obviously there are a lot of challenges in the Solomons and I don';t want to dramatise things. It never helps when I do that.
JOURNALIST:
There seems to be a slightly different reaction to Australia';s role in the region form people. One minute if there is a problem we are the country that tends to be turned to and [inaudible], but also this debate that';s going on over in the Secretary General';s division that is saying that you shouldn';t be involved in taking a leadership role. Where do you see Australia';s role in the Pacific….?
PRIME MINISTER:
An influence I hope for good and for progress. We want to deliver the benefits of our economic strengths to the region, we want to be a good friend to the region. We can';t involve ourselves uncritically and unconditionally. That';s never possible. We have a right to have a view, we have a right to see our people of merit treated fairly, we also have a right to ask that assistance we give be dispersed and dispensed wisely and frugally. I mean I have an obligation to the Australian public. The Australian public is not uncritical of foreign aid as an issue and you have to understand as Australian journalists that is the responsibility of an Australian government whether it';s Liberal or Labor to constantly explain and relate to the public. I mean I';m a defendant of foreign aid. I';ve never taken a populist view on foreign aid. I think foreign aid is very important to this country, to Australia, and it would be a disaster if we lost the domestic debate on that issue. It would be a disaster. I don';t intend that domestic debate to be lost but I also think people in our own country who say we don';t mind providing aid as long as it';s well spent, I think those people are right. They have a perfect right to take that view. I think it';s a very sound commonsense judgement.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] that Australia is in someway responsible for some of the problems in the Pacific….
PRIME MINISTER:
I';ve seen that but they tend to be the people who think Australia, and particularly Australia under my prime ministership, is responsible for just about everything. It doesn';t work.
JOURNALIST:
What';s your position on Robert Mugabe and Zimbabwe and will you be pushing to have him expelled from the Commonwealth?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I';m very disappointed that Zimbabwe hasn';t shown any sign of seriously responding or responding at all to the concern expressed at the troika meeting in London earlier this year. There';s been an attempt made, attempts made on a number of occasions by the Secretary General of the Commonwealth to talk to President Mugabe about that. I';ve had a number of exchanges with the President of Nigeria and the President of South Africa. I';ll talk to Don Mckinnon in the margins of this meeting about the issue. I';ll talk also to Helen Clark and there are other Commonwealth leaders at this meeting who I know to be as concerned as I am about the issue. As to the next step well I think it';s important that I talk to a few more people before I start signalling next steps. But really we';re not making any progress. I understand that, and we have a remit from the Commonwealth and we secured part of it, the suspension of Zimbabwe, but we';d hoped out of that there';d be an attempt made by the government to engage with the opposition, that they would allow people in, talk to them. None of that has happened and the situation in Zimbabwe is now deteriorating very rapidly and I';m talking particularly of the food situation and also of course the evidence available of arbitrary property dispossession which is inflicting a lot of hardship not only on the owners of the farms but also on their employees. So it';s a very dismal scene and if you look at the principle of governance it leaves a lot to be desired.
JOURNALIST:
Are you considering bilateral action against Zimbabwe as well…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we don';t have anything under consideration at the moment but clearly there is understandable pressure in our country for something…some more…a greater demonstration of our unhappiness. But I do want to exhaust the Commonwealth processes properly.
JOURNALIST:
Didn';t the troika [inaudible] that if those concerns weren';t addressed that further action would be taken? I mean isn';t there almost an obligation for further action…?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that';s for commentators. I mean I';m in the process of interacting on the issue and it';s for other people to sort of write and assert at this stage. Nothing is really aided by my going further at the moment.
JOURNALIST:
Important US build up in the Gulf. Any signals from the United States that there';s [inaudible] Iraq?
PRIME MINISTER:
Nothing beyond what I';ve previously said. If you';re asking me have I been told recently of some marked acceleration and possible timetable the answer is no. The situation remains that as I said on a radio interview in Australia several weeks ago. I gave my assessment of the likelihood of American involvement and the strong possibility that Australia would be asked to assist. But no such involvement has been committed to by the United States and no request has been received by Australia and that remains the situation and we are in a position to know and that remains the position. But clearly the Americans are looking at a range of options. There';s no particular secret about the fact that defence authorities here are looking at a whole range of options. I think it';s pretty well an open secret. But that doesn';t mean that it will happen and it doesn';t mean that there isn';t a very significant series of steps to be taken which may alter the situation. I don';t know.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think it';s just too early to make a judgement about that. But in any event you don';t in the end make as decision on something like this entirely based on opinion polls and I don';t think you';d suggest we should do anything based on opinion polls, would you.
JOURNALIST:
Have you or are you going to speak to Rene Harris about Nauru';s role in….
PRIME MINISTER:
I will yes. We were to have a bilateral but it had to be reorganised because of I think his late arriving or something. But I will certainly talk to Rene, yes I will.
JOURNALIST:
At what point [inaudible] role [inaudible]?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think I';ll wait and see how it flows but I would expect it to be a positive totally amiable discussion.
JOURNALIST:
Talking of good governance though don';t you have some concerns about the fiscal [inaudible] Australia has provided over the asylum seeker issue has propped up an administration of which I';m sure you';re aware has got numerous instances of the very sort of bad governance that you disapprove of.
PRIME MINISTER:
That question sort of is inviting me to retrospectively apply something I said we haven';t even decided to apply prospectively.
JOURNALIST:
There';s a number of member states in the Pacific Forum which have severe budget problems [inaudible]. I just wonder how are they receiving your message on good governance?
PRIME MINISTER
Well I haven';t sat down and talked to each of them individually. I don';t think it quite happens like that. I mean you have to with all of these things just keep a sense of perspective. I';m raising the issue. It doesn';t mean to say we';re going to immediately with each country say unless something happens we';re going to stop your foreign aid. It';s not like that. It doesn';t work that way. But what we are trying to do is to emphasise, and I believe with a lot of good reason and also I think with the support of quite a number of countries in the region, better for themselves address the issue of governance. I mean the Fijian Government wouldn';t argue with me about this. I don';t think the governments of a number of other countries would argue with me either about these issues. But I think it is an issue that';s got to be discussed, it';s got to be on the table, it';s got to be increasingly understood that there is that linkage. Now you shouldn';t jump to sort of automatic, I know you want to sort of do that, but you shouldn';t.
JOURNALIST:
South Australia';s Premier Mike Rann has called for the Baktiari boys to be….
PRIME MINISTER:
What';s he doing?
JOURNALIST:
He';s calling for the Baktiari boys to be released from Woomera. What';s your opinion?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I just think the law should be allowed to apply.
JOURNALIST:
What about next week, [inaudible] government';s planning on announcing the next stage of the Telstra sale. What';s happening there?
PRIME MINISTER:
It';s news to me. Are you talking about, what, the next stage in the Telstra sale? We don';t have a sale at the moment.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we';ll be announcing, yeah….what';s my view on it? Well I';m in agreement with whatever is announced on behalf of the Government.
JOURNALIST:
I should be clearer. What is actually happening next week?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we are on the verge of announcing the arrangements in relation to a further inquiry but as to the precise details of it I';ll leave to Richard Alston.
[ends]