Subjects: NCA, drugs, Skase, parliamentary entitlements, economy, trade.
E&OE................................
MILLER:
We're joined on the line from the Lodge in Canberra by the Prime Minister of Australia, John Howard. Prime Minister, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Hello there John.
MILLER:
Good to talk to you this morning. Now Mr Prime Minister, I found it a little alarming yesterday when I heard the head of our National Crime Authority almost admitting defeat in the battle against drugs and suggesting that the Government has become the Nation's biggest drug pusher.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I had a similar reaction. His recommendations will not be accepted by the Government. Whenever I'm Prime Minister we will not support a heroin trial and we will not give any aid or comfort to any state or territory that endeavours to conduct a heroin trial. Moreover the claim that we are losing the war against drugs, in other words, that we're falling further behind in the fight against drugs, is not borne out by the evidence. In fact, the number of deaths from heroin overdoses in the first seven months of this year is sharply lower than it was last year. And although I'm not claiming that that trend will necessary go on, I hope it does and we all hope it does. It is a sign that we're having some success. The number of seizures are much higher, the Australian Federal Police and the customs services and the state police services deserve praise from other authorities rather than them trotting out what is a fairly old argument and that is that if the rate at which you solve a crime is low then you surrender and legalise the activity. Now we've had low clear up rates for a lot of crimes in this country over the years. People aren't advocating that you legalise car stealing because the clean-up rate might be low. The idea that we would give in is not one that I accept. And in any event heroin trials have been conducted in other countries, they were conducted in Switzerland and the World Health Organisation found that the trials have not been successful. So we have a very firm view on this and I would just send a signal again to the states that they will get no aid or comfort from the Federal Government while ever I'm Prime Minister on the issue of heroin trials.
MILLER:
But surely a man in Mr Gary Cook's position should know what he's talking about?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I could equally say, surely the Commissioner of the Australian Federal Police Mr Keelty should know what he's talking about as well and he totally disagrees with the approach taken by the chairman of the National Crime Authority. And I just say again that we have had a lot of success in reducing the supply of heroin and that has been reflected in a reduction in the number of heroin deaths. There are other ways of treating addiction such as the use of methadone and there has been an investigation of other drugs such as buprenorphine, all of which are alternatives to deal with an addiction problem. But it seems to me to represent a total surrender and I think sending entirely the wrong signal and say well let's legalise it. What you need to fight the drug problem is you need tough law enforcement, you need education so people don't start taking drugs in the first place and you need rehabilitation facilities to help the people who want to break the addiction. Now my approach is not to put all of the emphasis on law enforcement, but to put a strong emphasis on that and to be very uncompromising on that issue. We have had a sharp increase in the number of seizures. We are making progress. It's not easy. It's not easy for any country. The countries that have experimented with heroin trials haven't suddenly found that that's the way through. The country that on my information that has the greatest success in Europe in dealing with this problem is Sweden. Sweden in fact in the 1970's reversed a more passive approach and adopted a much tougher approach and on my information Sweden's had more success than any other country in Europe on this issue.
DAVIE:
All right, Mr Prime Minister let's move on.
PRIME MINISTER:
It's Ross is it?
DAVIE:
Yes that's right. Good morning to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think we've spoken before.
DAVIE:
No we haven't. And it's a pleasure to meet you. Amanda Larkin is blaming the Federal Government for the death of Christopher Skase.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't want to be, how shall I put it, insensitive at a time of family grief for anybody no matter the circumstances. But obviously that's not something I accept. The Federal Government was merely doing its job. It had a perfect right to pursue the late Mr Skase as it has a perfect right to continue to pursue the assets. You're dealing here with the money of people who were, to put it at its minimum, were treated very unfairly and very improperly and we have an obligation to them to pursue it.
MILLER:
All right, now you say you will be doing something about tapping MPs perks following the, well put it this way Prime Minister, our switchboard and I'm sure talkback switchboards around the country, must have jammed yesterday following the Auditor General's report. What are you going to do and how are you going to do it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm having some work done on that at the moment and I hope to say something about it very soon. What that report indicated was that there are some of the entitlements and some of the allowances that should be capped. I know it's easy to take pot shots at the entitlements of Members of Parliament. But the great bulk of the entitlements that are put against the names of Members of Parliament are really the cost of them doing their job. Every time I as Prime Minister take a flight anywhere in the country, the cost of that flight is put against my name, which is fair enough. But is anybody suggesting for example that as Prime Minister of a very large country I shouldn't regularly visit different parts of the country. I mean for example, tomorrow, or tonight I will be flying to Townsville and I will be spending a day in Townsville and overnighting and then going back to another part of the country the following day. Now the cost of all of that is put against my name and published at some stage, which is fair enough. I'm not complaining about that. But I'm using it as an illustration of the fact that the great bulk of the expenses that are published, and when people say oh its $1.5 million over and above their normal salary, what you're really talking about are things like travel and things like accommodation and the use of cars which are part and parcel of your job. Now there are in addition to that, there are some of the entitlements such as printing and travel for ex-members of Parliament and so-forth where I think we can have a look. I'm having a look in a number of areas to try and put a cap on the entitlements. But it is just not possible for the average Member of Parliament to do his or her job without travel, without accommodation, without using a car. And everytime that happens the cost of that is recorded and eventually published against the name of that Member of Parliament and people say how outrageous. That person is spending or getting a million dollar perk. Well it's not a perk merely to have your plane fare paid for when you're doing the public's business. That's the point I'm making that's all.
MILLER:
Well Prime Minister I don't think anybody would argue, any reasonable person would argue against Ministers or against Members of Parliament getting around their electorate and meeting the people and getting.
PRIME MINISTER:
In fact they are urged to do so and criticised when they don't.
MILLER:
However, we have seen examples, plenty of examples, of people going way over the top with. and thirdly in the case of ex-Members.
PRIME MINISTER:
I accept that. Can I say John, I accept that. And it's that kind of sentiment that is influencing me in responding to this report. I accept that. There are some places where people are, to use your expression, go over the top, and they shouldn't. They damage us when they do, the rest of us. And to the extent that I can I'd like to stop that.
MILLER:
We've seen a recent example of unions taking militant action to protect the entitlements of workers.. This is a real sore point for many, many people in the workforce and I think that the strikers at the Tristar plant actually had quite a degree of public support behind them given that Australians generally don't like strike action, particularly when it hurts innocent third parties such as the car workers. Would you agree that they have a point?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, John, I think workers' entitlements should be protected and the Federal Government does have a scheme which provides a safety net for those entitlements. It's not working very effectively at the moment because the States won't contribute to it. I mean, we've had a scheme in operation since the beginning of last year whereby we provide a safety net where a company goes broke and can't pay the workers' entitlements. We have taken the view that half the cost of that safety net should be borne by the Federal Government and the other half by State governments because many of the laws that deliver entitlements that workers lose when a company goes broke are State laws. Many workers, for example, in Queensland work under State awards. Roughly 50% of workers all around Australia work under State awards and we think it's only reasonable that the States should pay half that scheme but they won't. The only State that's willing to pay half the scheme is South Australia. But the Labor Party government in Queensland and the Labor Party government in New South Wales, Victoria, Western Australia and Tasmania steadfastly refuse to contribute.
And right as I speak, if a company were to go broke in South Australia and workers be denied their entitlements then those workers would be twice as well protected as workers would be in Queensland because of the refusal of the Queensland Government to make a contribution. And I think it's only fair that we ask the States to contribute half the cost. We're putting in our share, we're calling on the States to put in their share. And if we did that we would have an effective safety net scheme and there would be no need.I mean, I'm sympathetic to workers whose entitlements are at risk when a company goes broke. Let me make that very clear. I was very critical of that strike at Tristar but I agree with you that there is community sympathy that workers should not lose their entitlements. I mean, I don't argue with that for a moment. And we have a scheme and we say to the States, you bear half the cost and we'll bear the other half. I mean, we've put our money on the line and the South Australian Government's put its money on the line. Now Mr Beattie should put his money on the line and the only reason he won't is that the Federal Labor Opposition has a different approach and its approach is to put a new tax on business to fund the fund to support the entitlements. And we don't think you should do that. We think it's something which should be borne out of the public purse. Because if a company goes broke and can't meet its entitlements it's a bit rough on the company next door to be asked to bear the cost of that. I think it should be borne right across the community. It's not something that should be loaded on to a small business that doesn't go broke, is doing the right thing and pays all the entitlements to which its workers are due. I think that's an unfair approach but that's the approach that apparently Mr Beattie is supporting at the present time.
MILLER:
All right, Prime Minister, may I just take your indulgence for a moment because in the aim of our company meeting the workers' entitlements here we have to go to a commercial break.[inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm always in favour of free enterprise.
[COMMERCIAL BREAK]
MILLER:
Mr Howard, an OECD report warns, while things are looking good at the moment interest rates could rise by the end of the year on the back of a low Aussie dollar and inflationary pressure are you concerned that this will coincide with the election?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't expect interest rates to change. I mean, they're in the hands of the Reserve Bank but I, myself, wouldn't have thought there would be much variation in interest rates for a while now. I think interest rate settings are appropriate. I think that OECD report paints a very strong picture of a growing Australian economy. There are always pressures in an economy of one form or another but when you look at the low inflation, the low interest rates, the rebounding growth. The report says that we have benefited from tax reform. It praises tax reform. It says, and it's right, that the introduction of the broad-based, indirect tax will deliver benefits into the future. So I'm pretty pleased with that report. I'm not smug about it. There's always more to be done. It says we need more flexibility in the Labor market and that's right. I'm pleased that yesterday the Senate passed, certainly in a modified form, a bill that gives some relief to small business, introducing a probationary period for new employees in relation to unfair dismissal claims. And this is something that small business has wanted for a long time. Now, it's not what we wanted ideally and that's an exemption in relation to unfair dismissal actions for small business but it's certainly a small step in the right direction and I'm very pleased that we're able to get that through the Senate despite the opposition of the Labor Party.
MILLER:
And Prime Minister, you're off to the United States next month for trade talks. Now there is talk that this could lead to an open trade agreement with the US. Given that we're an economic minnow and they're a whale are there dangers inherent in that for Australian business?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there'd only be dangers in it if we agreed to give things up without getting anything in return. It won't be easy getting a start on negotiating a free trade agreement with the United States but it is worth looking at. I won't sign any agreement with the United States that doesn't provide benefits for Australian farmers but I certainly won't sign any agreement that damages Australia's interests. But the United States market is a very big market and if we are able to get greater access to that market on reasonable terms then we'd be foolish to give up that opportunity, absolutely stupid. So in the world environment we now live you have to investigate every opening, you have to ply every opportunity to see if you can expand trade and that's all I'm doing. But I'm determined to see if we can do that because if we were able to get a toehold into that huge American market that would be tremendously important to Australia.
MILLER:
Prime Minister, you're heading into Townsville tonight I heard you mention before. You know that you're walking into a state where the Liberal Party is in absolute tatters. Threats of court action being thrown around. How do you see the Liberal's chances of rebuilding in Queensland?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well obviously after the state election at a state level it's very tough. But I think Bob Quinn is doing in difficult circumstances an excellent job. Whenever I hear him on the media he's a voice of reason and commonsense and I thank him for that. Federally we are, despite some obvious differences in one or two areas which you always get in a competitive political party, the Liberal Party's federal prospects in Queensland are good. But as in all other parts of the country it's going to be a tough fight. I think federally the Government is doing a little better than it was doing a few months ago but I still think we're behind around the country and I still believe we're going to have a tough fight to win the next election. But I do sense as I move around Australia, and I'll be interested to sort of test the mood in Townsville tonight and tomorrow, I do get the feeling that people as they get closer to making a choice are looking at the Labor Party and saying well they don't really stand for anything. Even though I may not agree with everything Howard has done at least he's had a go, at least he stands for something, at least under his leadership the Government is taking Australia in the right direction even though I disagree with some aspects of what the Government is doing.
MILLER:
Still get the very real sense though Prime Minister that where credible independent candidates present themselves they're going to get voted for.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm not sure in a general election that outcome is as likely as you will get in by-elections. I know for example there was a state by-election in Queensland when Rob Borbidge stood down and there was a by-election and there was an independent that won that. You often get that in state by-elections. People, I think we're being clearly told, people don't like quick by-elections after general elections. I think people have sent that very strong message. Where a by-election is unavoidable, perhaps as in Aston in Victoria, then the public takes a very different attitude. I think we all have to accept that. Look we are living in a slightly different world but in the end you have to make a choice at the end of the year. You either have a Coalition Government led by me with all that that may or not mean in the eyes of different people, or a Labor Government led by Mr Beazley. Now they're the only two alternatives. You can't have a government of independents. It's a contradiction in terms and in the end people do have to make a choice even if it's through their second preference. So I'm not sure that in a general election you'll have such a surge for independents. We had that ten years ago. In 1990 it looked as though you were going to have a break out of independents yet in the following election in 1993 things polarised. In 1998 most of the independents in Federal Parliament were defeated. So it does sort of come and go. It's not a new phenomenon because we are living in a different political environment where political allegiances are less rusted on than used to be the case. But in the end the election is a choice between returning the Coalition or electing a Beazley Labor Government and that's the choice in the end that people in Queensland and elsewhere in our nation will have to make.
MILLER:
All right. Prime Minister John Howard we have to go to the news. We're going to have to leave it there. Thank you very much for your time this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[Ends]