Subjects: illegal immigration; aged care; policy costings
MCGRATH:
John Howard, thanks for speaking to AM this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
MCGRATH:
On the asylum seekers issue and the HMAS Adelaide incident you';ve authorised the released of the video today, what';s it going to show?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I have authorised it, but I think people can have a look at it and make up their own minds. But can I make the point Catherine that the basis of my assertion about children going overboard and the basis of the assertion by Mr Reith and Mr Ruddock to that affect was not the video, the video only surfaced several days after the claims were made. The reason the two ministers made that claim was that they got that information from Navy sources and I';ve checked that with both of them as recently as last night. And on top of that I was provided with written advice from intelligence sources on the 10th of October to the effect that people on the vessel had jumped into the water and that children had been thrown into the water. So I want to make it very clear that the basis of our claim about people being, people not only going overboard themselves, but children being thrown overboard, was not the video. At no stage have I…
MCGRATH:
So are you…
PRIME MINISTER:
Can I just finish, at not stage have I said that the basis of my allegation was the video. Now as to what the video shows I think people can make their own minds up but whatever the video shows that doesn';t alter the fact that I was advised by defence sources or, my two ministers were, and I in turn was advised by them, and then two days later I received a written intelligence report that contained a very direct and explicit statement, and if Mr Beazley for example disbelieves that well he';s perfectly at liberty to come into my office and have a look at the intelligence report, he';ll know that I can';t make it public.
MCGRATH:
Well can I ask you this, this incident has become a very key part of the election campaign and a lot of Australians were very upset by the thought that people would be throwing children overboard and the fact that so many people on Christmas Island have raised questions over it, you know there are a number of people looking for clarification. Now can I ask you this, the initial information you say came from Navy, was there subsequent advice to the minister from Navy that in fact children had not been thrown overboard?
PRIME MINISTER:
My understanding is that there has been absolutely no alteration to the initial advice that was given. And I checked that as recently as last night.
MCGRATH:
Well can I ask if there was a report to the minister after initial confusion that may have…
PRIME MINISTER:
Look Catherine if you want to ask the minister that';s… can I just go through the sequence of events. I was informed by both Mr Ruddock and Mr Reith that this had occurred, I subsequently was informed in writing from intelligence sources that it had happened, now in those circumstances I was perfectly justified in making the claim, I don';t retreat from it and in a sense it';s got nothing to do with the video, the video came along a couple of days after the 10th of October, I think the video was first mentioned on television news on the 11th of October and I think it was in the newspapers the following day. When I first made my claims, the claims were based on what Mr Ruddock and Mr Reith had told me and they in turn had based their claims on Navy advice. Now in those circumstances we just move on, you make a claim like that, you believe it, I had no reason to disbelieve the Navy and I repeat if Mr Beazley wants to come and have a look at the intelligence report I have I will be perfectly happy to make it available.
MCGRATH:
Well I';m wondering this because a lot of Australians would like to know the answer just two days out from the election given there';s been so debate about it and…
PRIME MINISTER:
I think what the debate has been about Catherine is the policy of turning away illegal immigrants…
MCGRATH:
Well people are wondering too if the government';s information has been right and I guess…
PRIME MINISTER:
I think they';re wondering who really does intend, if they get elected on Saturday, to maintain a firm policy on illegal arrivals. I think that is what the Australian public are worried about. But look Catherine the position, let me repeat it again, is that we were informed from Navy sources that this had happened, the two ministers told me that, that was the basis of my originally referring to it. At no stage did I claim that my claim was based on the existence of a video, I was subsequently informed in writing that the incident had occurred without any qualifications. I had every reason to believe that, I still have every reason to, irrespective of what is on the video.
MCGRATH:
If it shows nothing, if it';s inconclusive though what do Australians…
PRIME MINISTER:
That won';t make any difference.
MCGRATH:
Well what I';m wondering is if Australians are wondering whether, given that so many people on Christmas Island have…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I';m sorry Catherine, you';re asking me the questions, we';re not having a debate, I think the Australian people are worried about which party is going to maintain a strong policy on asylum seekers. The question of whether a video shows something is interesting but it doesn';t go to the issue of whether children were put in the water and it doesn';t go directly in any way to the issue of whether our policy on asylum seekers is correct or not, and I think that is the issue that is being debated by the Australian public.
MCGRATH:
I accept what you';re saying, can I just ask you this one question on this before I move on, if the Australian public though are also questioning whether or not the information they';ve been getting from the Government, from the Minister for Defence, from the Minister of Immigration, is correct, it';s a question of honesty, now what I';m asking is if the video doesn't show anything what are people meant to think about the fact that there are two different stories coming up, how do they…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well if the video is inconclusive it doesn';t in any way disprove what Mr Reith and Mr Ruddock have said because what Mr Reith and Mr Ruddock have said very clearly is that they were informed by defence sources, I was informed in writing by intelligence agencies that this had happened, now unless you and others are prepared to assert that the Navy in giving the information to Mr Ruddock and Mr Reith were lying…
MCGRATH:
…no I';m wondering …
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m sorry you have asked me a question, let me please finish the answer….or you';re asserting that the intelligence advice I';ve got was dishonest. I mean, what are you getting at? I mean, I, as a Minister, will act on advice, that advice remains. As to what is on the video, that is interesting but can I just remind you again, the basis of my claim was not the video. I did not, I did not know the video existed when I made the claim, therefore, in no way was the claim based on the video.
McGRATH:
I';m just wondering, yes or no, can you rule out whether Navy have reviewed their initial advice….
PRIME MINISTER:
I have no information or suggestion that they have reviewed their advice, no, I haven';t.
McGRATH:
Prime Minister, if we can move on to the issue of aged care. There';s a full page advertisement in The Age newspaper today that obviously our listeners around Australia wouldn';t have seen, those in Melbourne may have. A woman called Val Wilkinson from Bendigo has spent all of her mother';s inheritance, shortly after the death of her mother. Her mother, Mary, died last week aged 91 allegedly from head injuries after being knocked over in her nursing home. She';s very concerned about the state of nursing homes and she blames government policy and AM spoke to Val Wilkinson this morning. Here';s an extract of what Val said when AM spoke to her this morning.
I think I take responsibility as an Australian voter and I think I hold responsible all of us that didn';t care enough about aged care. I certainly know that until it confronted me, until I knew what it was like to have someone I loved, particularly in a locked dementia ward, I had absolutely no idea what went on and I had no idea how inadequate staffing levels were through lack of funding or how inadequate the facilities were. And now I know. I';ve had two-and-a-half years to observe it and now in the most horrific way, a year after I was very concerned that this might happen to my mum, she';s dead.
McGRATH:
A very concerned Val Wilkinson there, Prime Minister. Aged care is a big issue. What can you say to Val this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I';m naturally very sorry for her. I did see the advertisement. I can understand how she feels. Anybody who loses their mother apparently in those circumstances, even though the lady was quite elderly, but the suggestion is that she had been attacked. I don';t know whether that is right or wrong. I understand that there will be a coronial investigation. In those circumstances I can';t offer a view as to the circumstances of her death or the responsibility of the nursing home, whether there was any culpability or not. On the general question of the funding of aged care, we have put forward a very extensive aged care policy involving not only more recurrent funding going to nursing homes, capital grants instead of the loans being offered by Labor, but also, very importantly, we are going to increase the number of aged care packages. Now, these are the arrangements whereby services are provided to keep people in their homes rather than them going into nursing homes. They are, as you would expect, very popular with older people who wish to stay in their own home environment. When we came into Government there were only 4,000 aged care packages available in Australia. By the time the policy announced in the election is implemented that figure will have risen to about 34,000. We have committed another $68 million in our campaign promises to cover that. So, we actually have a more comprehensive and generous nursing home policy than does the Labor Party.
McGRATH:
Prime Minister, we';re nearly out of time. If I can just touch briefly on the policies that you have discussed in relation to the surplus. You';ve committed the Coalition to a surplus but can I ask you this, if the economy turns down and if it turns down very quickly, will you still maintain the surplus and if economic times become tougher will you slash spending or will you push up taxes.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we believe that the promises that we';ve made are affordable, consistent with keeping a surplus, and that';s based on our projections as to likely economic growth. So I';m not going to hypothesise as to an outcome that we don';t believe is going to happen, that';s plainly foolish.
McGRATH:
If there';s a downturn, though, will you cut spending or taxes?
PRIME MINISTER:
Our calculations have all been done on the basis that although there';ll be some tapering off in economic growth, economic growth will remain very strong. It';s likely, because of the policies we';ve put in place, it';s likely to be stronger in Australia in the coming calendar year than any other western country. We';ve factored all of that in. Our spending proposals are far more modest than are Labor';s. Labor';s are gross $10 billion.
McGRATH:
Well, they dispute that.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they dispute it. Well, they haven';t given enough information to the Department of Treasury and Finance to back up their disputing of it. I mean, it would help enormously if Mr Beazley and Mr Crean provided everything – I mean, we';re now two days out from the election. I mean, what a joke. They are deliberately trying to make it impossible for the Treasury to provide the costings.
McGRATH:
There';s also a question mark over your aged care policies…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, our aged care policy was submitted in full on the 28th or the 31st of October and the reason that that zero appeared was that the Department didn';t cost was that the Department didn';t cost the promises that were contained in the policy. We submitted it in full and there has been no holding back by us. It was apparently an oversight by the Department.
McGRATH:
Prime Minister, the debate will obviously continue for the next two days. Thank you very much for speaking to AM this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[Ends]