E&OE................................
CHURCH:
Joining us now from Melbourne is Australia's Prime Minister, John Howard. Mr Howard thanks for talking with us. Now if we can just start, you have said that Australia is neither morally nor legally obliged to accept these refugees. The United Nations has said that Australia has primary responsibility, what's your reaction to that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we don't agree with that assertion, I'm not sure that the United Nations as a body has said that and we don't know that they are refugees. You're not a refugee under international law until you are assessed, usually by the United Nations High Commission for Refugees as being a refugee, they are simply illegal arrivals. They were taken aboard a Norwegian vessel in an Indonesian search and rescue zone. There are no Australian citizens on board. It's a Norwegian vessel, the original vessel that they set sail on was Indonesian, crewed by an Indonesian group so in international law we don't have an obligation. We of course take more refugees on a per capita basis than any country in the world after Canada, so nobody can accuse Australia of being hard hearted when it comes to refugees. And we're perfectly happy to go on taking refugees provided people are assessed and don't jump their place in the queue.
There are proper assessment procedures for refugees and we are opposed to a situation where people can force their way to the front of the queue, arrive illegally and having got to Australia in effect push other people out of the way. I repeat we're perfectly happy to go on taking our fair share of refugees and I'm very proud of the fact that my country, after Canada, on a per capita basis, takes more refugees than any other nation on earth.
CHURCH:
Prime Minister, New Zealand has recognised that these people need help, it has offered to take people if other countries do indeed do the same thing. Are you worried that Australia's image has been tarnished internationally with this incident?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't believe our image will be tarnished. People understand the facts, I mean when you are willing, as we continue to be, to take people on a per capita basis more generously than any country other than Canada, I don't think any charge can fairly be made against us.
CHURCH:
Why make an example of a boat carrying over 400 people who are quite obviously under stress, they're out in the sun and they're out at sea and the Norwegian ship did the right thing by picking them up and now nobody wants them. Why make an example of these people?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's not a question of making an example of these people. We are talking to other countries about ways and means of resolving the issue and I can't at this stage say more than that. We obviously don't want them to remain on that vessel any longer than necessary. The original destination of the vessel after it picked them up was Indonesia, and the people picked up applied duress to the captain of the vessel and as a result he turned around and headed under their instructions or requests or duress to Australian territory.
We don't want them to be there any longer than necessary but we have a situation where there are an estimated 5,000 people waiting to set sail for Australia from Indonesia and its environs, and we have taken a large number of boat people over the past couple of years. We have detention centres that are filled to bursting point and there is a very strong and legitimate view in Australia that we have to take firmer measures to prevent an increasing number of illegal arrivals in our country.
We are unlike a lot of other nations. We are an island continent and we therefore have a very large exposed border and people can sail to Australia in circumstances where with such a large border we face a very significant surveillance problem. We are a humane country. We treat people well when they get to Australia. We are providing medical and other humanitarian assistance to the people on board the Norwegian ship. The medical assessment of their condition is quite positive in the circumstances and our defence doctors tell us that proper arrangements are there to look after any needy medical circumstances. So we are doing everything within our capacity. But we have to say to other countries that there needs to be a better international effort to reduce the level of people smuggling. There has to be a more combined international effort involving the United Nations and the United Nations High Commission for Refugees ...
CHURCH:
Mr Howard I'll just interrupt you there because we are a little out of time and I wanted to put this to you - you and your government face critical elections this year. Immigration has been a very hot issue for Australia. Is this rejection of these refugees more about your electoral prospects?
PRIME MINISTER:
No it's not. That's absolutely absurd. It's not. This has got nothing to do with the upcoming election. I wish that this problem were not ours. I don't find it easy. It's a very difficult issue. We're trying to balance our legitimate right to preserve our border integrity with our very legitimate concern as a nation that for generations has taken refugees from all around the world. It has a wonderful humanitarian record so we're trying to balance those two proper considerations but it's got nothing to do with the up coming election and I reject that suggestion completely.
CHURCH:
Prime Minister John Howard thanks for talking to us on CNN.
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