Subjects: Australian Federal political system; drugs campaign; Princes Highway; health system; public service; Australian Workplace Agreements; Prime Minister's XI v ATSIC XI.
E&OE................................
UHLMANN:
It's five past nine and it's my great pleasure now to welcome to the programme the Prime Minister John Howard. Good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Chris, nice to be with you and your listeners.
UHLMANN:
I understand once that you said Autumn is your favourite time of year in Canberra.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it is, it's absolutely glorious time of the year in Canberra and really great. Nice time of the year in most parts of the country but it's particularly pleasant in Canberra.
UHLMANN:
Look if I can begin by just taking you back to the beginning of this year, I must say to an outsider like myself it appeared that if you were a member of the Coalition you'd be fairly confident about your chances of re-election this year yet three months down the track things look very grim. Is that how it appears to you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well certainly we've had a few set backs. I know that. But we are a Government that's been prepared to make changes to better secure Australia's future. We haven't been a Government that has tried to swan along and take the easy options, and I recognise that when you make changes to get a better future you run into some short-term challenges. And it appears that many of those short term challenges as a result of our reform agenda have all bubbled to the surface over the past couple of months. Now that's difficult and I have always thought that the next election is going to be very hard but I've always had a strong view that you are elected to govern well, and you are elected to make changes that you believe will provide a more secure future for the country and for Australians and that's what I've tried to do. And if the cost of that is that we go through difficulties, we go through periods of unpopularity, I don't like that, it's not easy, it's challenging, but it's necessary because the ultimate responsibility I have is to govern in a way that I think is best for the future of the Australian people. And all the things we've done that have caused us some difficulties, the introduction of the new tax system, very easy for the Labor Party to stand on the side lines and criticise, but in the end their policy is to keep it. I mean you couldn't have had a more negative, opportunist opposition. They've had a whole lot of easy hits and I've seen that as an inevitable consequence of the agenda we've set ourselves, but we believe that Australia needs a new tax system and we believe it will be beneficial and we must go through this difficult period if we are to better secure our future.
UHLMANN:
I'm wondering though, a lot of people have boiled down the problems to economic ones if you like, that it's the GST or as the Daily Telegraph said I think in a famous headline it's the petrol prices stupid. But is it really that simple? I'm wondering whether or not the malaise in Australian politics, which is not just aimed at the Coalition, goes more deeply to a concern about the way that our political system is being run.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you can always be critical of that, and I think everybody who has an influence on the political system, including the media, has a responsibility in that. I mean one of the difficulties of politics in this country is that everything is compressed into a sort of ten second will you rule out for all time this that or the other. Or will you give a guarantee or are you in favour of this? Yes or no. The great bulk of issues are never black and white. The great bulk of issues are degrees, are shades of grey. It's never simple to say well that argument is completely wrong, or that argument is completely right. I mean we have a situation at the moment in relation to greenhouse gas emissions. We are continuing with our programme to reduce them in Australia, but we also recognise, as the United States administration does, that you cannot have a comprehensive world wide agreement on greenhouse gas emissions unless you get the developing countries involved. Because if the developed countries accept the disciplines then the industries, the dirty industries will simply disappear from the developed countries and relocate without penalty or restriction in the developing countries. So President Bush is absolutely right in arguing as he does, and we're absolutely right in nonetheless continuing to implement the greenhouse gas emission controls and reduction policies that we introduced after Kyoto. So there's a question, it's not a question of whether we are for or against Kyoto, it's a question of what is a balanced, reasoned attitude and you can't always explain a balanced, reasoned attitude in terms of I am for or I am against Kyoto. I mean I am for reducing greenhouse gas emissions. I am also in favour of an arrangement which is comprehensive and does not produce the anomalous result that dirty industries will disappear from developed countries subject to protocols and relocate in developing countries that are.
UHLMANN:
Now Prime Minister I fully accept your criticism of the media on that and just.
PRIME MINISTER:
Now look hang on I'm not criticising, now don't get the idea that I'm shifting the responsibility onto the media. I'm making an observation that we do have a political culture in this country to which everybody has made a contribution, not just the political parties, which sometimes creates a situation where you have to be either for or against something and in many cases it is a 60-40, on balance, judgment and in many cases there's a shade of grey and not a complete black or white.
UHLMANN:
Yeah I guess the thing I was getting at though is in our political system, in a sense it's a winner take all system. We've got the tightest caucus system in the world. And I wonder whether or not people in Australia feel that they can't have any real affect on the system, that when they vote for someone they're voting for a party member. They'll go to parliament, they'll represent the party, they're not actually acting as parliamentarians but as party members first and foremost and that disturbs people.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think that's always disturbed some people. Our party system is tight. The Labor Party caucus is tighter than ours on the other side, in the Government, the Liberal and National Party. Their's is much tighter than ours. We don't automatically expel people or suspend them if they cross the floor or abstain. So there is a difference there. But I think there has always been an element of that. It's perhaps greater now than it was, that is the public attitude. I think people are less rusted on to parties of traditional allegiance than used to be the case.
But I mean all of this is very interesting and very important but that is in a sense a matter for the political commentators as well as the political parties and my responsibility in a day to day sense is about the current and future welfare of the Australian people because that's my responsibility and it really brings me back to what I said earlier that we are a Government that has set out to do things. We haven't been idle, we're not a Government that believes that you should just enjoy the spoils of office, we are a Government that believes you should try and change and improve things and if we have upset some people in the process it's not deliberate, we don't mean to do that, but it's an inevitable consequence that if you are a reforming Government you can go through periods of unpopularity and periods of difficulty. Because you can't change things easily in any country, but if you believe in the medium to longer term those changes provide a more secure future, and that's certainly the case with the tax system.
I mean one of the great benefits of the new tax system is that it will for the first time give to the states of Australia that provide most of the basic services people need in their daily lives, give them a guaranteed growing source of revenue. All the GST is going to the states, every last dollar and if you roll back the GST you are therefore rolling back assistance to Government schools, to police, to public hospitals, and all of those basic services that state governments have the responsibility of providing. I mean this is a very valuable medium to longer term reform. The cost of implementing it for us is that we're going through some short term difficulties. It will be challenging for us at the end of the year when the election is held, but if you are to be a good Government what alternative do you have other than to try and provide a more secure future?
UHLMANN:
Certainly Prime Minister, I guess the point I was trying to get at though is that we talk a lot about economics in this country but I'm wondering whether it's time we actually started talking about the political system and the things that political parties can do to help people into that system.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look I'm happy to talk at any time about different issues, but I also have an ongoing responsibility to address matters that are of immediate concern to people. I mean not all of the things that people are worried about are economic. I mean over the last couple of weeks I've probably spent more waking hours on issues like gambling and drugs than I have on the economy. So this is not a one dimensional Government that's only concerned with the economic outcome, we are concerned about the social health of the nation as well the economic health of the nation.
UHLMANN:
Were you disappointed then in the response that you got to your proposals on drugs?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I actually am quite encouraged from the people who matter, and that is the parents of Australia. I was very encouraged by the response.
UHLMANN:
As opposed to the people that get trotted out to comment on it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Not all of them were critical either but many that I expected to be critical were critical. But it was a very unvarnished straight forward appeal to parents to get more involved in talking to their children about the dangers of drug taking and the dangers of starting down the path of drug taking. And parents are still the greatest influence on young people in the Australian community and that's not just something I've plucked out of the air, it's not just an instinct, it's something that is based on careful research. The research we did for this advertising program indicated that 70% of young people would be more likely to listen to their parents on this issue than anybody else, not to say all of them do, and it's not to say that there aren't people who need role models other than their parents. But in the great majority of cases parents are still the best influence for good on young people as they grow up. And we shouldn't lose sight of that and we should always gear programs with that in mind.
UHLMANN:
Well Prime Minister, interesting you were talking before about the ten minute sound bite and the kinds of things that go on in the day to day life, I suppose, of Prime Minister or politician. Do you sleep soundly at night now having picked up the paper and found out that your Treasurer Peter Costello has ruled out a challenge before the election?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I've always slept very soundly.
UHLMANN:
Will you sleep even more soundly because of this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you can only sleep soundly. I'm a very sound sleeper.
UHLMANN:
Alright so.
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm also a good cat napper.
UHLMANN:
. never been concerned about a challenge from your Treasurer or anyone else.
PRIME MINISTER:
No.
UHLMANN:
Now Prime Minister, moving on to some of the issues that we have in the, surrounding us. You've seen self Government now over the last 10 years, or 10 or 11 years. What do you think of it, it has been suggested to me that you're not much of a supporter of self Government in the ACT?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think really it's a question of what the people of Canberra think of it, in the end. I always thought there was some arguments both ways when it was originally brought in, but if the people of Canberra are satisfied with it, in the end that's the thing that matters most of all.
UHLMANN:
You wouldn't seek to change it in any way?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I, we don't have any plans to do that, no.
UHLMANN:
And you don't have any view on whether or not it's been successful or a failure?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well my view is that that is a matter for the people of Canberra.
UHLMANN:
Well Prime Minister moving on to some of the issues in the electorates that surround us. To our east in Eden-Monaro there's been a lot of concern about the Princes Highway and calls to declare it a road of national importance, which means that we'd get 50/50 funding from State and Federal Governments. Are you interested in doing something about that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well in the end it is, as things stand at the moment, it is a state highway. I mean, this really goes back to a point I was making earlier that the states have responsibilities. We've just brought in a new tax system that will give them more money and now in effect I'm being asked to pick up responsibility in an area where traditionally the states have the responsibility. Before we came into office the state governments looked after state highways and we looked after national highways and local roads where we paid money to councils. Then we brought in this new category of roads of national importance which are really half way between state highways and national highways. And we've declared a certain number of roads to be roads of national importance. We, at this stage, are examining our options in that area but many of the people who argue in this direction are really saying well the Federal Government should pick up even more responsibilities that are normally carried by states, despite the fact that we're giving the states more money. I mean it doesn't really make sense. I mean in the end federalism, if it is to work, has got to be a two way process. If we are to retain states - and I'm not arguing for a moment that we shouldn't, let me emphasise - but if we are to.
UHLMANN:
Does your finger hover over the button sometimes?
PRIME MINISTER:
No no. Look that's part of our culture, our history and our constitution and I'm not advocating that it be dismantled for a moment. I'm simply making the point that if you have a federal system states have got to accept responsibility as well as exercising political authority and independence. And they have a certain amount of money now, they're going to get a lot more money as a result of the GST, it is therefore incongruous that in the same breath they should turn around to us and say 'well we want you to pick up still more of our responsibilities, despite the fact that you're going to give us more money under the GST'. It really doesn't make sense.
UHLMANN:
One of the areas which is certainly a federal responsibility though is Medicare. And there's a lot of concern both in Hume and Eden-Monaro about access to bulk billing. Bulk billing, for example in Eden-Monaro, there are apparently only two practices left in the entire electorate, Merimbula and Queanbeyan, where you can get bulk billing.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can't speak with authority on exactly what area is provided. I do understand from the Member for Eden-Monaro, Gary Nairn that many GP's still bulk bill for low income earners, although that may not be widely known. Can I just make the point that there are a lot of predictions when we came into Government that we were going to dismantle Medicare. Five years on Medicare is stronger and better than ever. And the other thing that is stronger and better than ever is private health insurance. There are a lot of people in electorates like Eden-Monaro and Gilmore and the ACT that support private health insurance and we now have record involvement in private health insurance in terms of the last 10 or 15 years. I mean private health insurance was dying when we came into Government and because of our subsidy - which the Labor Party originally attacked and said was outrageously wasteful and which they have now rather meekly and humiliatingly said they would accept and keep if they won Government - but I have my doubts about that, but that's what they're saying. As a result of that we have really revived private health insurance and that will in time take a lot of strain off the public hospital system. It's already resulted in a strengthening in the private hospital system and the good news is that there aren't going to be, for all practical purposes, there are not going to be any increases in private health insurance premiums this year. And that is really quite a remarkable achievement because of the large number of people who've gone back into private health insurance. Now that, see by having strong private health insurance you are taking some of the strain off the Medicare system, so to those people who said Medicare was going to be dismantled by the Coalition they've been proved wrong. Not only is it better than ever, we've also revived private health insurance and arguably have a much better health system now than we had five years ago. Although it can always be made better.
UHLMANN:
Mr Howard any thoughts about moving public service offices to Queanbeyan? There has been a bit of a push on recently there.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look all of these things, I believe have to be looked at from the point of view of the individual agency. There's not a great deal of travelling involved in moving between the two cities. We don't have a big zealous push on in that area but if the opportunities arise and individual agencies take decisions, well, we wouldn't be standing in their way.
UHLMANN:
Mr Howard, what about the changes that you've made to the federal bureaucracy since 1996, are you happy with them, have they gone far enough, is there anything you'd like to change?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think they've been very successful. The most important thing that we've done is to give more authority to individual agency heads and that enables the development of a far greater sense of esprit de corps within individual agencies. It has allowed, through the Australian Workplace Agreement approach, it has allowed the development of greater incentives and greater opportunity and slightly less uniformity and that's good. You've really got two aims. You've got to maintain good, basic standards so that everybody is treated fairly but you also have to reward merit and particular effort. And the system that we've introduced of having Australian Workplace Agreements available and increasingly used has really looked after both of those concerns. The Labor Party will get rid of individual contracts and they'll hand the whole thing back to the public sector unions. We think that would be a mistake. We don't object for a moment to the involvement of the unions or union membership. We think that should be a matter for individual choice. But if there's a Labor government back in power then that freedom of choice will disappear.
UHLMANN:
And what about in your view whether or not you've got the balance right now between outsourcing and the core public service itself, is there anything else that you'd like to see done in a different way?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think generally speaking the balance is right. You'll always be arguing at the margins whether this or that service should be outsourced or not but we've tried to get a balance. Once again, this is an area where we've been willing to have a go and our opponents have sat on the sidelines and just criticised. They don't offer an alternative. They just criticise what we do. I mean, it is incredibly negative and it is one of the reasons why there's a certain level of cynicism about the political process. If politics is about competing approaches and competing philosophies, that is always more interesting and stimulating and praiseworthy than being about one side having a go and the other trying to trip it up all the time and criticising from the sidelines.
UHLMANN:
Now, Prime Minister, one thing that's causing a little bit of discussion around town is when you might name a new Governor-General.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that will be done soon and that's all I have to say on it.
UHLMANN:
A short-list, have you got any one.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh look, I'm not going to get into speculation but it will be done soon but I can't really say any more than that and that the person will be a very distinguished Australian.
UHLMANN:
On an international issue that's running at the moment too, of course, we saw the United States lose a plane inside China. Now, do you have a view on that? Of course, the United States are saying that the Chinese shouldn't look inside the plane. Well, I guess that's a little bit of a hard position to maintain when your planes been spying on a nation.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm not going to start passing judgement on the nature, or expressing a view, about the nature of the activity being undertaken by the American plane. I'm quite certain that both the American Government and the Chinese Government are at work to resolve this matter in a sensible fashion. It was an accident. There's no suggestion that the Americans were engaged in any kind of overtly offensive behaviour. And it's not unreasonable of the Americans to ask that their personnel be returned. I am very saddened by the possible loss of life on the Chinese side. As I say, there's no suggestion other than that it was an accident and that it was a result of a collision in the course of the Chinese aircraft buzzing the American spy, alleged spy plane.
UHLMANN:
And that the Chinese should return that plane without looking inside.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that's not an unreasonable request. If I were the American Government I would be making the same request.
UHLMANN:
If you were the Chinese.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look, in the end they have to resolve it between themselves but I can understand the Americans wanting their aircraft and their personnel back without interference.
UHLMANN:
Now, Prime Minister, on a completely unrelated issue but one of the reasons that we have you here this morning is because the Prime Minister's XI, and we are lucky enough, of course, every year to have the Prime Minister's XI playing against a visiting team, but this year it will be playing against an ATSIC Chairman's XI on April the 19th.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, well this is a real first. It's an inaugural match between the Prime Minister's XI and an ATSIC Chairman's XI. It will be played at Manuka Oval on the 19th of April starting at 10.00am. The match will be 40 overs a side. The Prime Minister's XI will be captained by Steve Waugh, and I'm delighted that he's accepted my invitation to lead the team. There's an all indigenous ATSIC Chairman's XI that's going to be captained by Jason Gillespie. This match is, in part, honouring the legendary 1868 Aboriginal cricket team which was the first Australian cricket team to tour England. And that team played 47 matches for 14 wins, 14 losses and 19 draws. There's going to be a celebrity match at lunch time.
The Chairman of ATSIC has arranged with Waterford Crystal for a trophy to be made and that's going to be called the Johnny Mullagh trophy. And Johnny Mullagh was a very talented cricketer from Victoria who toured in the 1868 team. The Prime Minister's XI will include, apart from Steve Waugh, Mark Hicks, Mitchell Johnson, Nathan Bracken, Michael Clinger, Andrew James and Shaun Marsh. And I'm also inviting Belinda Clark, who's the Captain of the Australian Women's Cricket team to play as one of the guest celebrities. So, it will be a special day. And I am very pleased at the cooperation of the Australian Cricket Board.
There have been fewer Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders involved in top level cricket over the last 30 or 40 years than in sports such as Australian Rules and Rugby League. Now, I know of no particular reason for that. It's certainly not the attitude of cricket authorities that has resulted in that but if this helps to encourage more young indigenous cricketers to try harder and get further involved, well, I think that will be fantastic.
UHLMANN:
Do you pick these teams, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have a discussion with the Australian Cricket Board. They have quite an influence.
UHLMANN:
Is there a hierarchy.
PRIME MINISTER:
They are not unmindful of the views of the Prime Minister from time to time.
UHLMANN:
And Belinda Clark, one of your picks.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes. I know Belinda and I've taken a very close interest in the fortunes of the Australian Cricket Team. I attended the farewell reception for them earlier..late last year when the team went to New Zealand for the World Cup. Unfortunately they just missed out but they're a great team of players and we really should be very proud of them and equally proud of the contribution they make to the reputation of Australian sport, as we do to our national cricket team.
UHLMANN:
Well, Prime Minister, it's a sitting day, we'd best let you go and thank you for your time this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[Ends]