PM Transcripts

Subjects: Federal Election results; boat people; detention centres; industrial relations; ABC; Speaker of the House; media ownership laws;Gold Card; refugees; Ansett.
CORDEAUX:
John Howard sir, how are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m very well thanks Jeremy. Good to talk to you and your listeners again and can I, on this first occasion that I';ve spoken directly to people in Adelaide since the election, and specifically to people in Adelaide, I would like to very genuinely thank the people of the city of Adelaide and the people of South Australia for the support they';ve shown the Liberal Party. We have retained 9 out of 12 seats in the House of Representatives in South Australia and that';s a remarkable result. It';s a great tribute to people like Chris Gallus and Trish Worth and Trish Draper, all of whom have very marginal seats and all of whom fought wonderful campaigns and did extremely well. And I';m most grateful that the people of South Australia have voted in this fashion for the Government. I don';t take their support for granted and I promise that I';ll work very hard over the next 3 years to justify the trust that they';ve given to the Government.
CORDEAUX:
So all thought about you hanging up the Prime Ministerial job have all gone, right? We want to hear that sir.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that';s very kind of you. Well, what I';ve said on that before obtains. I'll give some thought to my future in a couple of years time. Right at the moment wild horses, as I said after the election, would not drag me out of the job. I';m looking forward to the challenge. There';s a lot to do. We';ve already started work. We have a new ministry, some new changes and new faces and different responsibilities. In South Australia Robert Hill, the most senior Government member from South Australia moves to the very important defence portfolio and environment has been taken over by David Kemp. We';ve already begun to talk seriously with the Indonesians – I';ll be seeing the Foreign Minister in Sydney this afternoon. Mr Downer had a very successful talk yesterday. We';ll be engaging in a lot of quiet diplomacy over the next few weeks and months. It';s an important relationship. We should just work away at achieving as good a balance in the relationship as we can.
CORDEAUX:
What about, literally, what can you do? You can come up with an agreement but how do you enforce it? Do you offer them money to beef up what they can do at their end? To what extent are you prepared to go?
PRIME MINISTER:
We';ll we';ve always been ready to provide some financial help to Indonesia. We understand that it involves the goodwill and the participation of other countries in the region and I welcome the fact that there';s going to be a regional meeting on people smuggling early in the new year to be co-chaired apparently by Australia and Indonesia. That is a very positive development. There are different ways we can continue to send a message, as we will continue to do, to potential people smugglers that we will do everything we can to prevent them coming onto the Australian mainland. And we have been successful in preventing people coming onto the Australian mainland. It';s too early to claim that a permanent message has been sent although there is some evidence that the trickle of people is slowing. But I can';t be certain about that. That is the view of the intelligence agencies and also the view of the Indonesians. Their Foreign Minister said that yesterday. So, we';re making progress but it is a very difficult issue.
The Australian people should however understand that we don';t intend to change our policy. We do believe we have a right to decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come. That was no idle piece of campaign rhetoric on my part – I genuinely believe it. I';ve been saying it for months. Now that the election is over I';m saying the same thing.
CORDEAUX:
And you obviously have the backing of the vast majority of Australian people for that attitude.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I do. And for good reason. It';s an entirely common sense proposition that this course is entirely consistent with our record of providing a haven to refugees. We';ll continue to take refugees. And we';ll continue to be amongst the most generous countries in the world in taking refugees.
CORDEAUX:
These human rights people are at it again. Mind you they, not to my knowledge anyway, ever criticise the way in which women and children are treated in some of these countries of origin in the Middle East, but they';re prepared to criticise the way in which we are handling the detainees. What would you say to them?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I';ll be interested to see what comes out of the Human Rights Commission';s investigation. We';ll cooperate with that but there have been inquiries before. You';ve got to ask yourself why are children sent unaccompanied to Australia. And I agree with Philip Ruddock when he says that it';s part of a pattern of trying to force Australians, the Australian authorities, to agree to family reunions and we have to be very wary of that as a community. But we';re an open society and if people want to investigate what happens in detention centres then they can go ahead and do so. But what disturbs me is that the critics of the Government';s policy, and I don';t at this stage include Dr Ozdowski of the Human Rights Commission, he';s merely said that he';s going to conduct the inquiry so I naturally expect and I believe that he will be completely neutral and impartial and look at the evidence that';s presented to the inquiry. But our critics are already saying well the Government has got to do something. Well the Government should only do something if the current policy is wrong – which I don';t believe it is. And if the conditions in the detention centres, given the inherent difficulty of providing ultra comfortable accommodation in a detention centre, if those conditions are unacceptable. And there is no evidence of that at the present time. Many of the allegations that have been made in the past on further inquiry have been found to be inaccurate. But we';re an open society and if the Human Rights Commission has a statutory responsibility or a statutory power rather, to carry out an inquiry it won';t be tripped up or derailed by the Government. We';ll cooperate but I want to make it plain that we';re not going to alter our policy in relation to mandatory detention. It';s a perfectly legitimate thing to do. Indeed other countries around the world are moving more in the direction of what Australia is doing rather than away from what Australia is doing.
CORDEAUX:
So the bleatings of former Prime Ministers and the clergy will go unheard and I';m grateful for that.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t generalise about all of the clergy, some clerics are very critical of what I';ve done, not all are in that category. But certainly it';s a difficult area and people should understand that going around the world there are few countries which have as good a human rights record as Australia does and I resent very strongly the suggestions made by many that in some way we are engaging in some appalling breach of human rights merely because we have a policy of mandatorily detaining people who come here illegally.
CORDEAUX:
And you';re expressing really what the majority of Australians want you to do. So here you are with a third term and I've heard all sorts of rumours about well what you';d like to do, a new home affairs super ministry I heard, I heard a new FBI style national police force, obviously there are things in the area of maybe media ownership, there are things in the area of industrial relations. What are you itching to do?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I';m itching to do a lot of things, I';m itching to implement the promises we made in the campaign on things like the first child tax rebate, the superannuation and savings reforms, the reforms in aged care which will now be the responsibility of the new Minister for Ageing Kevin Andrews, the reforms and additions to health policy which will be Kay Patterson';s responsibility. I also do want to have further industrial relations reform because I believe it will be good for the economy and it will also importantly but secondarily be a test of whether the new Leader of the Opposition, Mr Crean, has really freed himself from union domination. It's a fairly simple proposition for a Labor Party wanting to connect with small business in this country to vote in favour of a piece of legislation that would encourage small business to recruit more people.
CORDEAUX:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
And the unfair dismissal laws that we want to get rid of do not really provide protection for workers, they in fact act as a disincentive for small business to employ more people. And any small business operator listening to this interview will know of the occasions when he or she has thought I might take somebody else on but I can';t afford to settle out of court a frivolous unfair dismissal claim, therefore to save myself the possible bother I won';t put the person on in the first instance.
CORDEAUX:
Or if he does put the person on, he puts the person on as a part time or a casual just to protect….
PRIME MINISTER:
That is also part of it and yet to compound the wrong headed thinking on this you get the unions and the Labor Party complaining about the growth of casualisation, the growth of casuals in the workforce. Well part of the reason, only part of it, part of the reason is that people are looking at casual employment as a way around some of these more absurdly restrictive and rigid laws that apply to permanent employment. So this is a very simple measure, it passes the common sense test. I hope that the Labor Party, when the Parliament resumes and when this legislation, as it will be, is put through the House of Representatives and goes to the Senate, I hope the Labor Party demonstrates that it really is new and different and it will win some support and it will win the respect of the small business community. If on the other hand it just does what it';s told and it looks at this stage as though it will because after a bit of huffing and puffing Mr Crean went to ACTU House and was told to get back into line and apparently he said yes I will. So we';ll really find out. But they';re amongst the things that I want to do, I also do want to press ahead with welfare reform which we promised in the budget. I would like to review the cross media laws, they are out of date, we are living in a technological age now where you have this media conversion and that is something that we do need to change.
CORDEAUX:
So you';d go for not diversity of ownership but diversity of opinion?
PRIME MINISTER:
Diversity of opinion, I mean diversity';s very important and we would want to see some safe guards built into any new regime that would guarantee that and that would be part of the package.
CORDEAUX:
It would be good if we could have diversity of opinion on the ABC.
PRIME MINISTER:
Certainly would.
CORDEAUX:
What about a new General Manager, what have you heard about that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t know about who that';s going to be, I don';t think the board';s made any decision, I think they';ve begun the selection process, ultimately it';s a matter for the board. We appoint the board, the board appoints the Managing Director. At this stage my understanding, and I';ve only had one very brief discussion with the Chairman about it, my understanding is that they have begun the selection process.
CORDEAUX:
Speaking of selection process, how close did Bronwyn Bishop get to the Speakers job?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that';s a matter for my colleagues. I choose the ministry and I name the Leader and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate and I choose the Whips and all the other positions but traditionally the Coalition candidate for Speaker and the Coalition candidate for Deputy Speaker have been chosen by a vote of the party room. While I have a vote along with everybody else and if somebody privately wants to know my opinion I';ll talk to them, I don';t think it';s my role to go out and put my hand on somebody';s shoulder, it';s something that the party room regards as its own decision, I respect that, they allow me to choose everything else and I do that and I have to make decisions and I';m quite happy to carry that responsibility. But when it comes to the candidate for Speaker it really is a matter for the party room and anybody can nominate. Neil Andrew has told me he';s going to nominate again, I have not been told that anybody else is nominating but that may change, I just don';t know.
CORDEAUX:
Just on the cross media ownership laws, given if you can get it through the Senate in the first place people are paranoid about people like Kerry Packer getting more power or buying Fairfax of whatever, what would you like to see as an ideal in terms of media ownership or setting the scene for media ownership in Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t have any paranoia about an individual media proprietor, it really is the question of the quality of the product. I don';t think the laws should be made to suit individuals but equally the laws should not be made to penalise individuals.
CORDEAUX:
…the best interest of the country.
PRIME MINISTER:
Exactly and one of the criticisms I have of the current laws and I';ve had that criticism for 15 years since they were introduced, is that they were really designed, particularly by the former Prime Minister Mr Keating, to penalise the old Melbourne Herald group and also others who were critics of the then Labor Government.
CORDEAUX:
So what would you like to see?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I would like to see as much diversity of ownership and opinion as is possible given the size of our country and given the, I guess the economies of scale. But we have quite a deal more diversity of ownership than people imagine if you look at the whole of the media. You take for example the emergence of a group such as the Southern Cross network which has not only radio but also television, they don';t own any newspapers. We tend still to look at media ownership in terms of the ownership of newspapers and we forget how perhaps at a secondary level but nonetheless important level there has been quite a penetration by other media proprietors. The O';Reilly group has very substantial radio and provincial newspaper interests. I would obviously like to see some greater opportunities, providing local media proprietors have a fair go as well, opportunity for foreigners. I don';t just mean the Murdoch group which is technically because of Mr Murdoch';s current citizenship treated as a foreign company although of course he comes of a family that has made a very big contribution to the Australian community. There are other foreign media owners that have a high reputation and perhaps some of them in a different climate might…
CORDEAUX:
But you';ve got no objections to Kerry Packer buying Fairfax?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have no hang up about that, no I don';t. But equally that';s not the purpose of the change. I just don';t think that any longer we should have these rigid divisions, I really don';t. Can I say I';m not saying here anything new. This has been my view for 15 years and I looked at this in the early term of the Government and there was a lot of opposition and I abandoned it because there didn';t seem to me to be any point in pursuing it against a lot of opposition. But now that we have a different, perhaps a different environment we are going to look at it again. But can I make it clear Jeremy that it';s not the most important thing on the horizon to me and if the Labor Party and the Democrats and the Greens are resolutely opposed to it and don';t support it well it won';t go through. Perhaps I can put it this way – I';m not going to have a double dissolution over the abolition of the cross media ownership laws, although I do think the cross media ownership laws are anachronistic and out of date. That';s the context in which I';m approaching it.
CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister, I want to ask you about the Fox/Lew bid for Ansett. Would you mind taking some calls.
PRIME MINISTER:
I';d be delighted to.
CORDEAUX:
Bill. What would you like to say?
CALLER:
Good morning Mr Howard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Hello Bill.
CALLER:
Congratulations on your latest achievement.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
CALLER:
I agree with everything you go for but I have one small gripe. It';s not small in my mind though. It';s about the Gold Card. I';d like to know, well it seems like discrimination against the chap that joined up voluntarily and didn';t get out of Australia. I was in it for four years. Apparently I joined the wrong service. I should have joined the Army instead of the Air Force. And it seems strange that we are sort of, you know, neglected on the Gold Card. We';re over 70, I';m 77, and I know of people, I can quote you one case of a chap that married a Thai lady. He recently died and now she gets the Gold Card. Now what';s your thoughts on that?
PRIME MINISTER:
I understand how you feel. Historically the view';s been taken by all governments and by the RSL that there should be a policy for people who have what is called qualifying service and that is service in a direct theatre of war. And there has been a margin given in relation to that service on the grounds that it involved additional danger and risk. I understand fully what you say and I know people who joined up not with the view to stay in Australia but with a view to going wherever their country wanted them to go and by random selection of war strategy some ended up in Australia, some ended up in a theatre of war. And I guess it';s something that we';ll continue to look at. We did indicate in the election campaign that we would extend the Gold Card to people in post World War II conflicts who had qualifying service who were over the age of 70 and that means that a lot of people who went to the Korean War and some in Malaya and perhaps even some in Vietnam, not many in Vietnam, will be picked up. But we';ll continue to look at it Bill but I understand your complaint but that is the historical basis of it.
CORDEAUX:
Thanks Bill. [inaudible]
CALLER:
Good morning Jeremy.
CORDEAUX:
Hi.
CALLER:
May I speak with the Prime Minister?
CORDEAUX:
You';re doing it.
CALLER:
Good morning Mr Howard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
CALLER:
Congratulations. I wish to congratulate you on being returned as our Prime Minister. It was very good.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
CALLER:
Now I have a question. Now that Afghanistan is being liberated, will you please send all the boat people back? It';s up to the world now to go in and rebuild their country. [inaudible] really do not assimilate in our society. They abide by the law of Islam, not the law of the land in which they live.
CORDEAUX:
It';d be a very popular sort of opinion but I don';t know how practical it is Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well can I just say that now that Afghanistan has reached a stage where the Taliban is in the process of being finally removed, it has not finally gone yet. I think it';s a little too early to assume that a completely new dawn has emerged in Afghanistan. Certainly it';s more promising but it';s very important that the political settlement is one where there';s power shared and we don';t have one difficult regime replaced in time by another. It';s a little too early at this stage to assume that all of Afghanistan';s problems are behind her. Certainly with the Taliban gone and if you do have more peaceful stable conditions in Afghanistan there will probably be fewer refugees wanting to leave and there will be the opportunity for some to go back. But right at the moment the conditions for people to return are not very good. They may, as a result of the Taliban being removed, they will improve over a period of months. But right at the moment there';s still a lot of shooting going on and it';s just not realistic to say we';ll send people back the day after the Taliban has been removed from particular cities. But can I say that you are right in thinking that with a better climate in Afghanistan there';ll be fewer refugees wanting to leave and there';ll be more opportunity to go back, and it will be the responsibility of the world of which Australia is a part. We have to play a part in financing the resettlement, or the settlement back into Afghanistan of some of the people who';ve left, and also we have to provide financial help to Pakistan along with the rest of the world in helping her cope with the enormous refugee problem. We can';t escape, and I don';t want us in any way to walk away from our responsibility to help countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan, but the real solution lies as you rightly identified not so much in trying to settle millions of people in other countries in the world but creating the conditions in their own countries that they can go back.
CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister, I';ve only got a couple of minutes before the news, can I get a quick comment from you on the Lindsay Fox comment yesterday that the federal government is being politically motivated in refusing to help his plans to revive Ansett. What do you want to see happen there?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I want the best outcome for the airline industry, for the employees of Ansett and the Australian public. We';re not playing favourites. I mean Lindsay must have been talking with us tongue in his cheek when he said that. He';s known all along that we weren';t going to dip into the taxpayers'; pocket to fund a commercial enterprise and that in effect was what he was asking for with his $150 million pre-purchase of tickets. We';ve stuck religiously to our guarantee in relation to workers'; entitlements. I haven';t deviated from that. We';ve helped Ansett in a number of other ways but we are not in the business of playing favourites and we';re not siding with Corrigan. It';s true that Mr Corrigan spoke to me. I indicated to him over the weekend that we weren';t going to play favourites. That whatever in the end the administrator decided was the better offer in the interests of the creditors would be what prevailed. That we would stick to our guarantee on workers'; entitlements. We wouldn';t provide pre-purchase of tickets. Now one way or another you will get the emergence of either a slimmed down Ansett or Ansett under another name. Who in the end owns and operates that is a matter for the administrators. But I want to say that at no stage are we playing politics. We do want to see more competition but it';s not the role of the taxpayer to fund the commercial investments of businessmen whether it';s Lindsay Fox, Solomon Lew, Chris Corrigan or indeed anybody else.
CORDEAUX:
And I think in the court of public opinion everybody';s going to agree with you again. Prime Minister congratulatioh you again. Prime Minister congratulations. Thank you for your valuable time and we';ll see you soon. We';re not going to get a chance to talk again before Christmas so on behalf of my listeners have a wonderful Christmas for you and your family and a fantastic new year.
PRIME MINISTER:
And to you Jeremy and all of the good people of South Australia who listen to you, I hope they all have a very happy Christmas.
CORDEAUX:
Thank you sir.