Subjects: Illegal immigration
E&OE................................
PRIME MINISTER:
Ladies and gentlemen, the Minister and I have called this news conference to make a number of announcements concerning the Norwegian vessel and arising out of the Cabinet consideration this morning of this matter. As has been widely reported in the news, the vessel took on board several hundred people as a result of the vessel on which they had been travelling being becalmed, in circumstances where there was a clear obligation under international law for those people to be taken to the nearest feasible point of disembarkation which we are informed was an Indonesian port called, I think, Merak. I further understand that arrangements had already been tentatively put in place by the Indonesians to receive those people. There have been reports verified by the ship's captain to the effect that some of the people taken on board threatened him and insisted that the vessel set sail for Australian waters. The Government having taken legal advice on this matter and having considered it very carefully this morning has indicated to the ship's captain that it does not have permission to enter Australian territorial waters. It will not be given permission to land in Australia or any Australian territories. It is our view that as a matter of international law this matter is something that must be resolved between the Government of Indonesia and the Government of Norway. We have already communicated to Norwegian and Indonesian authorities the decision we've taken and the communication made to the ship's captain.
We stand ready to provide humanitarian help for the people on board the vessel. That does not in any way compromise the validity of our refusing permission for the vessel to land in Australia. Food, medical supplies, medical attention and other humanitarian assistance will be readily made available by Australia. We will also in our communications with the Indonesian Government indicate our willingness to provide financial assistance to that Government to receive back the people in question.
This of course is a very difficult and challenging issue for the Australian community. We have endeavoured and it is evident again in this decision to respond in a humanitarian fashion. But we simply cannot allow a situation to develop where Australia is seen around the world as a country of easy destination, irrespective of the circumstances, irrespective of the obligation of others under international law and irrespective of the legal status of the people who would seek to come to Australia. We will be further considering this position, the National Security Committee of the Cabinet will be meeting again this afternoon to give very careful thought to it, it is a difficult position, one where we believe the stance taken by the Australian Government is the only one appropriate in the circumstances.
JOURNALIST:
What's been the response of the Indonesian Government.
PRIME MINISTER:
We have not had a response as yet Robert, we have only just communicated. We discussed the matter this morning at length and we had available to us the advice of our law offices, the advice of customs, the advice of the Defence Force and the advice of DFAT. We had a very lengthy discussion about it and we have put in train the course of action that I have outlined.
JOURNALIST:
Are you concerned that you may be putting the Norwegian Captain and his crew at risk through this measure and how are you going to stop them coming into Christmas island? If they say bugger you we'll keep going are you gonna draw guns on them?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't want to start dealing in hypothetical situations. The information I have is that the communications with the ship's captain has been acknowledged and accepted and as I speak I have no information suggesting that the Norwegian Captain is going to act contrary to the communication given. This is a large container vessel. It is therefore far more sea worthy than many of the vessels that are involved in the transportation of people. It is a difficult situation all round and we've taken all of those factors into account, but believe that we have no alternative other than to take the stand we have. Given the circumstances that have given rise to this situation, given that the nearest point of possible disembarkation was an Indonesian port, and given as I understand it that it was the intention of the ship's captain to take the vessel and the people back to Indonesia it seemed the right thing for Australia to do what it has done.
MINISTER RUDDOCK:
Could I just add in relation to that that Christmas Island doesn't lend itself to receiving a container vessel. The vessel cannot come close to the island or any of the points at which its food or other material sustenance are received. That has to be carried in off barges and one of the reasons, one of the significant reasons why we made it clear at all times during the course of the night, that Christmas Island was quite an unsuitable destination for this vessel was the inherent danger to people if they were to be taken off the vessel, the enormous difficulty in the high seas, to be doing so with barges, which are not suitable for that sort of transport. Coupled with the fact that the vessel cannot approach Christmas Island at all. And our expectation was, during the course of the evening and this was conveyed to us that the vessel was to go to Indonesia. The vessel from which the passengers came founded in Indonesian areas of the high seas, that is the areas of the high seas which are normally supervised by Indonesian rescue authorities where they have the responsibility in relation to those matters.
JOURNALIST:
Who raised the alarm bells? Was it Australian authorities or Indonesia authorities?
MINISTER RUDDOCK:
The alarm was raised by the, I guess by the people themselves on the vessel that had founded and as I understand it we certainly as agents ensured that information about people being left at sea was conveyed generally and that was because the Indonesians were not able to undertake that task themselves in relation to the area in which they carried that responsibility.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] found them first...
MINISTER RUDDOCK:
No we didn't. The Norwegians found them.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, you said the National Security Committee would be meeting. Would that be to put defence on alert and...
PRIME MINISTER:
No no. We're not putting defence on alert. The National Security Committee of Cabinet deals with a whole plethora of foreign affairs and it's just the normal thing. We had a normal Cabinet meeting this morning and we invited our advisers in this area into that meeting and it just seems expeditious to continue the Cabinet discussion through the National Security Committee. Please don't talk about defence being put on alert. That is not happening and that is entirely inappropriate.
JOURNALIST:
And will you be talking to Megawati?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I will handle the contacts with Norway and Indonesia in whatever matter is appropriate given the close relations between Australia and both of those countries. At this stage it's 4 o'clock in the morning I think in Norway. It's a little more civilised hour in Indonesia. But we have communicated with Indonesia. We'll handle it in the appropriate way. I'm not saying that it's necessary at this stage for me to discuss the matter with the President. But I think we have to let the situation work its way through.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] is it fair to say that we've communicated this to the Norwegian captain. The Norwegian captain has not indicated any problem with that course of action?
PRIME MINISTER:
No no. My information is, and it's a rapidly evolving scene, my information is that he has acknowledged receipt, the ship has acknowledged receipt of that communication and has not indicated at this stage that he intends to act contrary to it. I think that's the best way of putting it.
JOURNALIST:
Are you having the Australian Ambassador in Jakarta brief the Indonesian Government personally?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we are doing whatever is appropriate in the circumstances. Of course we'd be briefing the Indonesian Government whatever the..DFAT has its mystical ways of communicating these things and I'm sure it will be done in the correct fashion.
JOURNALIST:
Given the Captain was threatened by those who boarded, isn't' there a concern about his safety and the safety of his crew if he tells these people they're now going back to Indonesia?
MINISTER RUDDOCK:
We're told they're not armed.
JOURNALIST:
There's 400 of them and 27..
PRIME MINISTER:
We realise that. But we are told they are not armed.
JOURNALIST:
Are the Norwegians armed?
PRIME MINISTER:
I beg your pardon.
JOURNALIST:
Do the Norwegians have guns or anything like that?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't know. I have no direct knowledge of that. I really don't Philip. I just don't know that. I mean I imagine there would be a, I guess on any vessel there would be a limited number of personal firearms available. I think the captain always has something. But I just don't know. That's pure speculation on my part.
JOURNALIST:
Are you prepared to assist the Norwegian crew if...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well obviously we would be but that's not something that we have been asked for.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] offers humanitarian relief, is that to be delivered on shore in Indonesia or is it...?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it will be delivered either onshore in Indonesia but more particularly delivered to the ship on the high seas. I mean it is a large container vessel. The point I'm making is that if there are any outbreaks of serious illness amongst the people then we can, through helicopters and so forth, we can deliver supplies, fresh water, even doctors to render urgent medical attention. I mean we are ready to do that and we've indicated that in the communication with the ship's master.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] but you said you're prepared to assist the Norwegian crew [inaudible] now.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I reacted...I reacted with a degree of incredulity to the idea of...I think your suggestion was that defence has been put on alert. Well I mean that sort of does have a certain connotation.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we haven't been asked yet and I think it's pointless to speculate.
JOURNALIST:
What do you expect to happen to these people when they're taken back to Indonesia? Do you expect them to be gaoled or be able to access the UNHCR?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think an expert should answer that.
MINISTER RUDDOCK:
I mean the situation in Indonesia is that Indonesia is acknowledging that in relation to people who are refugees it has certain responsibilities and they are working with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. I mean one of the reasons it's important I think to understand why people seek to come to Australia rather than make their claims in Indonesia is that when the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees makes assessments of Afghanis they find about 14% to be refugees and the figures here are about 84%, and it has a lot to do with the way in which our system is operating and it has a lot to do with the extent to which there is delay in getting decisions out of our system and the extent to which there is the capacity to delay by pursuing endless appeals. That means that you can't get a very clear unambiguous message that in relation to people who are coming to Australia that if they don't have proper claims, if they're looking for immigration outcomes they're going home because it takes a very long time through that system to get outcomes. That's why I'm pressing for change in that area. But in relation to Indonesia let me just say it does accept that it has responsibilities, it works those matters through with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. I have absolutely no doubt that in the context of this group returned to Indonesia they would be detained by Indonesian officials for the purposes of assessing whether they had any claims.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] because obviously you've had other vessels in the past that have been in waters of Australia. You've become aware, they've then been allowed to enter and land. So I mean why haven't those other vessels been turned away?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there's a very particular set of circumstances here. The people were taken on board a much larger vessel. By a vessel with the flag identifiably of another country, there was a clear obligation under international law for the master of that vessel to take the people to the nearest port of possible disembarkation and that was Merak in Indonesia and arrangements were underway as we understand it for those people to be received in Indonesia and then by dint of some circumstances on the vessel, that was altered. Now that is a special and particular set of circumstances and that is one of the reasons why we have taken the action that we have.
JOURNALIST:
But Prime Minister it's a lot of anecdotal evidence anyway that some people in Australia think we that we should be turning these ships away, in the past the reasons we haven't, what makes it different to here? Is it just that their vessels weren't seaworthy or they were nearer to Australia than Indonesia.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I've tried to explain the particular circumstances of this.
JOURNALIST:
But why in the past haven't we.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well those circumstances as I understand it have not been present. Mr Ruddock may want to add something to that.
MINISTER RUDDOCK:
Well I mean the situation is that in this case they were in the sea rescue area that is normally supervised by Indonesia. The Indonesian port was as close if not closer than Christmas Island. It was in the direction that the vessel was heading, that is to Singapore and the changed circumstances arose from the captain taking a decision under duress, whatever that duress is, it wasn't armed duress, but there was a form of duress by threat of self harm as I understand it, that prompted him to change his course. Now we have not been faced with that sort of situation before. Most vessels approach an Australian territory and come within our territorial waters, if we see them at sea we warn them and counsel them that they'll be breaching our law, the crew will be charged with people smuggling, detainees, I'm sorry passengers will be detained until we can deal with their lawful entitlements to be in Australia. In other words those procedures are gone through but if people still insist on coming unless you're going to deal with it by way of arms there is little more that you can do than to counsel and warn. And that's what we've done in those situations. This particular situation is different because the vessel has certain obligations and it's a Norwegian vessel. Indonesia would have certain obligations and they were destined for Indonesia and what we're doing is giving the captain an opportunity to be able to now take that course.
JOURNALIST:
How far from the Australian search and rescue zone were they picked up?
PRIME MINISTER:
It was in the Indonesian.
JOURNALIST:
But by how much?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we don't know that, we can find out and let you know.
JOURNALIST:
When you say a threat of self-harm, was it actually a case of.
MINISTER RUDDOCK:
Look I haven't got the details. All I've heard is from news reports that have made it very clear, the captain made it clear .he's been on the telephone talking to people.
JOURNALIST:
But was the threat directed to the crew or to the actual people.
MINISTER RUDDOCK:
My understanding is that they did not present arms, they suggested that they might throw themselves overboard and that was coersion on him, that's as I understand it. But you need to look at those reports yourself, I mean you're going by the same information that I've seen.
[ends]