PM Transcripts

Subjects: Australian Story; APEC; federal campaign; leadership; President Megawati; GST.
DENTON:
We';re pleased to welcome to the studio the Prime Minister of Australia, Mr Howard Winston Howard, good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
How are you Andrew, Amanda?
KELLER:
Good to see you.
DENTON:
And look thank you very much for giving us an exclusive interview, you';ve been very reclusive on the campaign trail, but Triple M has cracked it today, I appreciate it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Finally you burst through. I';ve been refusing constant media, expected to store it all for this moment.
DENTON:
And thank you because we';re going to discuss the important things. I was watching Australian Story last night which had amazing archival footage back in the ‘80';s and I have to ask you…
PRIME MINISTER:
No it was actually in the ‘70';s…
DENTON:
And the ‘60';s, ‘50';s. Nothing from the '20';s that I could… I have to ask you, how much work have you had done on your teeth in the last 20 years? That';s an enormous piece of dental work.
PRIME MINISTER:
Just normal running repairs.
DENTON:
Oh no there';s a dentist somewhere that';s bought an island on you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, just the sort of normal, you know some of those gold fillings wear out.
PRIME MINISTER:
Your cousin refered to the fact that when you first met Janette that you were a real dag.
KELLER:
And Janette was just gorgeous.
PRIME MINISTER:
My niece? Yeah well I was perfectly happy for the compliments to flow where they should. She was, she was terrific.
DENTON:
She was gorgeous but she said you were a dag. Do you think of yourself as a daggy guy?
PRIME MINISTER:
Ah that';s fairly mild compared with what I';ve been called.
DENTON:
Do you picture yourself as daggy?
PRIME MINISTER:
Don';t really think about it. Don';t really think about it.
DENTON:
Now there would be a moment where I should say you should, but I won';t say that.
KELLER:
You won';t say that because we';re being nice.
DENTON:
The APEC shirt.
KELLER:
Look I';m sorry you';re not wearing it today, we had a bit of fun with that during the week. The APEC shirt.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh the APEC shirt is great. I have got to tell you a story about those APEC garments, you';ve got to wear something, whoever the host country is they give you something that';s appropriate to the country and when we had the meeting in Canada, Vancouver, we were given these beautiful leather bomber jackets.
KELLER:
I remember.
PRIME MINISTER:
They were fantastic and when I got home my then 19 year old son Richard, who was on the programme last night, he';d seen it on television and he just sort of waited for me to put a bag down and he said dad, that leather jacket, he said you really have to face it, you';re a bit too old to be wearing that. He said I';ll have that. And I';ve got to tell you he didn';t say the same thing about that panda jacket that I had. No it is funny, he hasn';t sought of rummaged through my bag to get hold of that panda jacket.
DENTON:
I have this image of you sitting up in bed at night in your APEC jammies.
KELLER:
Now be honest where is it now? What do you do with it now?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think I';ve got to declare it to the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet or something because it might be worth more than a certain amount. I think I do actually.
DENTON:
I was wondering if you';re declaring it on the grounds of money or of taste.
PRIME MINISTER:
That suggests the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet has good taste, is that right?
DENTON:
Prime Minister it';s been a robust election so far, do you feel that you';ve had a rough trot from the Opposition?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh no. Actually it hasn';t been uncivilised, all election campaigns are robust, they ought to be robust.
DENTON:
I';m referring to Peter Costello when I say the Opposition.
PRIME MINISTER:
Ah that';s the hidden meaning. Denton blindsided me again.
DENTON:
I was actually going to ask if it';s a core or a non core good morning, just checking how it goes.
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m travelling alright. But I';ll wait and see, I';m a cautious bloke. You know the final whistle goes on the 10th of November.
DENTON:
It does indeed.
PRIME MINISTER:
And you know it might see-saw.
DENTON:
Actually I saw last night on the news that somebody';s put a lot of money on Labor to win the election, are these odds you';re going to take?
PRIME MINISTER:
It always encourages me when you';re not too far ahead in the eyes of the bookies. It';s a real worry when the bookies have got you odds on to win, it';s a real worry.
DENTON:
A real worry. Labor';s run an interesting tack against you which is they threaten the electorate by saying if you vote for John Howard you might not get him.
PRIME MINISTER:
I am actually chuffed, I am really touched that the Labor Party should be worried that I won';t be around forever.
DENTON:
I know you';ve come on this show to break this exclusive, so lets do it now, lets get it over with. Will you say now yes if I';m re-elected I';ll be Prime Minister for three years.
PRIME MINISTER:
No I';ll say what I';ve said before.
DENTON:
And what was that? It';s a simple statement.
PRIME MINISTER:
I know it';s a very simple statement, a couple of years through I';ll have a think about my future.
DENTON:
Now this is, because you are campaigning on leadership and (inaudible) and I know you would say about Costello and…
PRIME MINISTER:
… I will, but it doesn';t mean to say I';m going to retire.
DENTON:
But it';s not a guarantee for three years?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it';s to do what I said.
DENTON:
Okay. Alright. We';ll miss you John, particularly if you don';t have the APEC shirt on. Speaking of APEC, Mrs Sukarnoputri, I know you didn';t really get a chance to chat with her. When for instance during the Manoora crisis you ring up the leader of another country and they won';t answer the phone, is that considered, where does that sit on the scale of diplomacy, is that a crisis, is it difficult or is it you don';t care.
PRIME MINISTER:
Depends a bit on the, seriously, on the culture of the country.
DENTON:
Sure.
PRIME MINISTER:
And it is part as I understand it of Javanese culture to find it very difficult to say a flat no because it';s regarded as giving offence. I';m serious about that. And I mean if you refused to return my call or I refused to return yours then according to our culture that is rude, bad manners, should have the guts to pick up the phone to say no, don';t agree with you. It';s different in other cultures. And it';s, our relations were perfectly amiable, I saw her in Shanghai, we chatted away and…
DENTON:
Did you chat in Shanghai, did you actually get to chat or was it more of just can you pass the cocktail frankfurts please?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no it was far more than that. The advantage of that meeting is that you actually spend a lot of time with each other, and nobody else.
DENTON:
So what did you chat about?
PRIME MINISTER:
I talked about my visit there, I did talk a little bit about the illegal immigration problems. She is a very reserved person and just listened and we agreed to talk again. We talked a little bit about terrorism, we talked a bit about some of the challenges she has. Pretty hard job governing Indonesia and I';ve got a lot of sympathy for her in that….
DENTON:
That';s interesting you should say that because the impression we got from APEC was in fact you two hadn';t had much face time as they put it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh no we had quite a bit. They weren';t formal, we weren';t sort of surrounded by officials but we were chatting.
DENTON:
Okay. Now if you';d just put your headphones on for a second please Prime Minister we had the Opposition Leader Mr Beazley in here previously and he bought in…
PRIME MINISTER:
This is not a song is it?
DENTON:
No, well sort of, he actually brought in his range of guitars, listen to Mr Beazley.
DENTON:
Can you do some of that Foxy Lady for us?
BEAZLEY:
Oh well why not.
DENTON:
Okay.
[music]
DENTON:
Now Prime Minister I';m not going to ask you to sing but is there any musical instrument you play, the glockenspiel, the piano, the accordion, is there something that you…
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don';t play a musical instrument, I';m sorry, I can';t help you on that.
DENTON:
Do you morris dance?
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m a sort of a no gimmicks man when it comes to that.
KELLER:
Do you dread being asked to sing an ABBA song like Peter Costello had to?
PRIME MINISTER:
No because I have a pre-determined determination not to make a fool of myself. I did think he, I think he handled it very well.
DENTON:
Did you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I did. You don';t. I thought he handled it very well but that';s not my scene, I admire people who can do it but I know my limitations and you just say no.
DENTON:
It';s interesting, I know you';re off to open NIDA today cause you';ve given a grant to it and the other great supporter of NIDA is Mel Gibson. And it amazes me how often you two are confused…
PRIME MINISTER:
Every time.
DENTON:
It is extraordinary isn';t it. Now speaking of you Prime Minister we';ve chosen three songs, we';ve got a song to play now, we';d like you to choose, there';s a choice of songs here. There';s Should I Stay or Should I go?, Loser, or Beds Are Burning. Now you can choose one of those three.
PRIME MINISTER:
Jeez you';re all heart aren';t you?
DENTON:
It';s how we feel on election day, what a choice. Should I Stay or Should I go?, Loser, or Beds Are Burning? Which would you like Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Which would I reluctantly accept. The true thing is to say when they were giving advice I didn';t like anything they thought the government was going to do, they used to give advice on what was called the least worst option.
KELLER:
I think that';s what we';re talking about.
DENTON:
Beds Are Burning by Midnight Oil are an Australian product, Loser is …
PRIME MINISTER:
I';ll take Beds Are Burning.
DENTON:
Beds Are Burning? Okay. Prime Minister';s special request, Midnight Oil on Triple M. Don';t go away Prime Minister.
[music]
DENTON:
Watching Australian Story last night one thing really struck me – the day Sir William Deane swore you in as Prime Minister in ';96 - it was a fabulous look on your face. It was almost like a look of schoolboy glee. It was very natural, very human. It was just “wow I';m Prime Minister”. Did you have that sense?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah I did. You need to have a combination of the gravity of the occasion as well as the exhilaration of having achieved it. If it doesn';t matter enough to you to feel totally excited about it as well as totally immersed in it then you would not give it your best. You can';t afford to be, if you spend all your life driving towards something or being involved in something, if a person who finally gets to wear the baggy green, you have really got to be excited. I mean the thing that I like about…..when you find a test cricketer who really lives and breathes the excitement of the honour of being a part of the team, it';s a bit like that.
DENTON:
Yeah. You';ve done all three belts – Prime Minister, Leader of the Opposition, Treasurer. Which do you reckon is the most thankless job in politics? I';d be backing Treasurer. Would I be right?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I';d back Opposition Leader. The Prime Ministership is the most difficult and carries far and away the most responsibility. And of course the really difficult issues I can tell you in government in the end if there';s a difficult, a really difficult decision to be made because you';re the bloke at the top you have to do it. But from an ongoing political point of view Opposition Leader can be very frustrating. Now I went through some very difficult years as Opposition Leader, very difficult and they were very hard, very hard indeed.
DENTON:
Do you call up Kim sometimes and offer him help?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh no. Give us a break.
DENTON:
We';ve actually got him on the other line. Would you be prepared to debate him right now Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
What on the difficulties of being, you know…..I think he needs more time to experience the challenges of Opposition Leadership.
DENTON:
I have to say it wasn';t a good look, and according to the polls, it didn';t seem like a good look when you said you wouldn';t debate Mr Beazley again. Have you reconsidered that?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. We';ve had a debate.
DENTON:
Very early in the campaign.
PRIME MINISTER:
We have lots of opportunities to put our case and I think that';s how it should be.
DENTON:
Okay. You';ve also said that the GST which is still one of the issues of this campaign, Rollback and your response to Rollback, has been – it';s just that a lot of low income earners….I actually have one on the line now. You might want to put your headphones on. This is actually my mum Prime Minister. This is my mum Leigh Denton. Hello mum.
MRS DENTON:
Hello Andrew.
DENTON:
Say hello to the Prime Minister.
MRS DENTON:
Good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
How are you Mrs Denton?
MRS DENTON:
A bit cold.
PRIME MINISTER:
Sorry about that. Whereabouts are you?
MRS DENTON:
Blue Mountains.
PRIME MINISTER:
The Blue Mountains. That';s beautiful. I was talking to my brother who lives up there.
DENTON:
Where does he live?
PRIME MINISTER:
He lives in Leura.
DENTON:
Okay.
MRS DENTON:
Yes I often meet him at trivia nights.
DENTON:
My mum';s very fragile Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it';s lovely to talk to you. Where abouts….you live in Leura too do you?
MRS DENTON:
Wentworth Falls.
PRIME MINISTER:
Isn';t it a great spot? I used to holiday in the Blue Mountains and in fact my parents had their honeymoon at Katoomba because that was…..
DENTON:
Carrington hotel.
PRIME MINISTER:
…..and of course people didn';t travel as far then did they. But as children just after the Second World War we used to go there for holidays and then it sort of fell into the doldrums but it';s come back.
DENTON:
It has. The reason I';ve got my mum on the line Prime Minister is because I thought about it yesterday and I thought, look, I could talk about politics, who cares. We could talk about the GST in the abstract, who cares. My mum is I think representative of a lot of parents, somebody that';s felt the impact of the GST. So mum could you explain to the Prime Minister how it';s impacted on your life.
MRS DENTON:
Well Mr Howard it really has impacted on me and many like me. Excuse my voice but….
PRIME MINISTER:
No I can hear you very clearly.
MRS DENTON:
It';s not often I speak to the Prime Minister on a Friday morning.
DENTON:
Let';s not talk about your love affair with Pierre Trudeau right here.
MRS DENTON:
But really and truly it';s my experience that everything has been affected and there are so many people in the same situation that I meet up here. And I have a very supportive family and I';m very lucky but I wonder how many people get by.
DENTON:
Well mum, just one second, you';re on a pension which is how much a week?
MRS DENTON:
$208.15.
DENTON:
Okay which is a pretty standard pension. Now where has the GST affected you? You live in the Blue Mountains. What are the things that have affected you?
MRS DENTON:
Well gas for example. It';s very cold up here and it';s roughly about $12 a month extra, electricity, STD calls of course. And I had a bill from Telstra yesterday I paid and every component has GST on it. I need Telstra.
DENTON:
But there was a pensioners'; rebate and what happened with that?
MRS DENTON:
What on telephones?
DENTON:
No the pensioners rebate.
MRS DENTON:
The $1000. I got $188 and I don';t know why.
DENTON:
The reason I asked mum to hop on the line Prime Minister is I suspect she';s representative of a lot of parents. Now as kids we';re able to help mum who';s sort of on the line and the GST, $12 a month on gas for instance has affected her. What do you say to someone like my mum, who is a swinging voter I might add and boy does she swing, what do you say to someone like my mum? Why would she want to cast a vote for you again this time around when her actual margin of living has been affected?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I';d say this to your mum Andrew that unless I had all of the bits and pieces of her costs and everything it';s hard for me to make an independent judgement. All I can do is look at the general effect of the measures we';ve taken. I do know and it was demonstrated a couple of days ago when the cost of living index came out that the increases in the pension have been at least 2% ahead over the last year of increases in the cost of living including the impact of the GST. So if you';re saying are people worse off, or better off or about the same, without being able to analyse everybody';s individual position, which you really have to do to try and make an independent judgement, I have to rely on those sort of indications. Now bear in mind the GST does not apply to food and there are a lot of things that people buy in supermarkets now which are cheaper….
DENTON:
Yeah actually I was going to make that point.
PRIME MINISTER:
…..as a result of the GST because the wholesale sales tax has been taken out. Now there are other things that have gone up but going back again to the comparison between the increase in the pension and the increase in the cost of living as measured by the CPI, the increase in the pension has been something in the order of 8.1% or 8.3% over the relevant period and the CPI';s gone up by around about 6% or a bit over 6%. And our predictions were right because that figure the other day showed that the one off effect of the GST had dropped out. Now we did have a savings bonus for pensioners depending on what their savings were and that';s obviously what your mum';s referring to. We also had the one off payment at the end of the last financial year….
DENTON:
Pardon me for interrupting, I guess this is the pointy end of politics where projections and Finance Department costings and all of that, they all do screw up but at the real end of the scale there are people…..
PRIME MINISTER:
Well can I say they don';t screw up. But I';m not trying to sort of avoid your mother';s example. It';s just that unless I can sit down and go through each individual situation it';s very hard to….
DENTON:
It is an issue for you nonetheless isn';t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well everything is an issue. But so is an issue for the Labor Party of saying well look, having gone through the effort of introducing this new taxation system we';re going to then introduce a whole lot of complexity and confusion and start rolling it back. I get the feeling in the community, even amongst many people who don';t like the new tax system, that they feel that we have gone through the process of introducing it and we really should move on. And Mr Beazley keeps saying you';ve got to look at the future. Well he';s looking in the past in wanting to rollback the GST. I mean I suspect deep down that he really, if he becomes Prime Minister he will keep the GST, he';ll have minimum rollback. You won';t see any more rollback and he';ll probably find an excuse not to do everything that he said he';s going to do and it';s a bit out in the never never. The gas and electricity, well that';s, what, 18 months.
DENTON:
Yeah [inaudible]. Mum, from your point of view, GST off gas and electricity I suppose that would help a bit.
MRS DENTON:
Excuse me. It';s so early in the morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
I think you should reverse the STD charges the next time you ring Andrew.
KELLER:
That';s a good point!
MRS DENTON:
Mr Howard, with all due respect for those figures you produced which sound terribly good and very correct, they don';t work with the average person as I am and the people I meet. It doesn';t add up. I have been affected and I see all these little old ladies up here carrying their groceries. They can';t afford cabs or things like that. They don';t have cars and they';re really struggling and it worries me.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can';t argue with a person';s individual circumstances and I don';t have all the facts. But they';re not theoretical figures and I have met people in your age group Mrs Denton who do have a different view and I meet them all the time. They don';t pretend and I don';t imagine that they are well off and that life is and I understand life is a struggle. But I think I guess the point I';m making is that they don';t believe that the GST had made it significantly worse or even worse at all but their life is still difficult and I';m not arguing that it isn';t. But I just say I can';t do better than draw on general outcomes because I';m not in possession of each individual person';s particular circumstances.
DENTON:
All right. Mum thanks for calling in this morning. I';ve got the Prime Minister to autograph the APEC shirt for you and he';s going to send it up to you.
MRS DENTON:
Thank you. They all looked so cute.
DENTON:
You just want to take them home and collect them don';t you. Thanks mum.
PRIME MINISTER:
It was very nice to talk to you.
MRS DENTON:
Thank you Mr Howard.
DENTON:
There you go. Well that';s a voter.
PRIME MINISTER:
Quite a voter.
DENTON:
That';s my mum. I was going to say be very careful….
PRIME MINISTER:
She';s a single person focus group.
DENTON:
I was going to say be very careful when you say the age group that somebody';s in because that could be a real, you know, you can get yourself in a lot of trouble.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, but I mean [inaudible].
DENTON:
My mum';s 32.
PRIME MINISTER:
You should be able to talk plain English. I mean are we so politically correct now we can';t talk about….
DENTON:
No no, I';m being….I';m joking.
PRIME MINISTER:
I know you are. She';s not the slow one this morning.
DENTON:
My mum';s never slow. Neither are you Prime Minister. Thank you for coming in. You';ve got about two weeks left to go. I remember bumping into you in the last election campaign the day before the vote and I said to you you must be tired and you said I';m exhausted. How are you feeling at the moment?
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m feeling pretty good. We do still have two weeks agretty good. We do still have two weeks ago and it could go either way. I';m serious about that. It could.
DENTON:
All right. Well look, we wish you well, and I';ve got to say regardless of anyone';s political persuasion what struck me last night watching Australian Story is that whoever we vote for we';re going to get a decent Australian bloke in the job and that';s a lot to be said for our democracy. So I wish you well for the rest of the campaign. Prime Minister John Howard, thank you for coming in this morning. There';ll be a free APEC shirt for everyone.
[ends]