Subjects: Ryan by-election
E&OE................................
MITCHELL:
Thank you very much for speaking to us, Mr Howard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Pleasure, Neil.
MITCHELL:
Do you feel punished by the people?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I understand there is criticism and anger. I see the result as being one that sends a few messages and conveys a few lessons but it's not the devastating reverse, the overwhelming defeat that was predicted by the opinion polls. So I both learn and understand from it but I'm not daunted by it.
MITCHELL:
Tony Abbott said to me last week it was not just time for a mea culpa but a mea maxima culpa. Do you feel after this that you've got anything to apologise for?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Neil, I tend to deal with that on an issue by issue basis. Where I've made a mistake on something I say that as I did in relation to petrol excise. Where I don't believe I've made a mistake I don't. It's a question of recognising that we have to redouble our efforts to explain the reasons for economic reform and also to make certain, where we can, to cushion the impacts of that economic reform.
MITCHELL:
You don't feel your Government has made any mistakes to get to this position.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh look, of course we have made mistakes. I said that in the letter I addressed to the 80,000 electors of Ryan. Of course our Government has made mistakes. I would never pretend for a moment that we haven't but when you come to a general election people have to assess, warts and all, which of the two sides of politics offers the best hope.
MITCHELL:
Was the GST a mistake politically?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. I remain an emphatic supporter and a disciple of taxation reform. And this country has needed tax reform for a generation and the Government I lead is the first one that's had the courage to put it through. And it's been easy for the Labor Party to pick on us and they are getting the easy political pickings at the moment.
MITCHELL:
Well, don't the people understand that because the GST certainly seems to be one of the key reasons for what's happened in Ryan?
PRIME MINISTER:
There are a number of reasons why we copped a swing in Ryan. And the implementation challenges of the GST could well be one of them. We knew there would be challenges. There were changes needed to the BAS statement and you'll know that before Christmas, on your own programme, I first said that if there were changes needed the Government would make them. So, in no sense was that a backflip. I mean, we have this silly debate now about backflips. Governments that never change anything are stubborn, yet apparently when you do change things you are accused by some people of backflipping. It's a question of sticking to your general direction but making adjustments to ease implementation where that's necessary.
MITCHELL:
So no mea culpa.
PRIME MINISTER:
Neil I've said that I understand a message has been sent. I suppose we choose different words to describe it. I mean, I'm not saying to the people of Ryan, look, I don't care what you think of the Government. I do care. I do understand that many of them are unhappy about aspects of our performance and we'll try and ensure that those grievances that they have, that we can address, will be addressed.
MITCHELL:
Would it be fair to say, though, that would extrapolate across the country, it wouldn't just be Ryan? Do you accept that the mood in Ryan will be reflected or could, at this stage at least, be reflected around the country?
PRIME MINISTER:
Neil, we're going through a bad patch politically. We're not doing well at the moment politically. I understand that. But we're not facing the voters generally at the present time. It's quite difficult, the challenges this Government has at the moment are quite difficult. There's some turbulence on world financial markets that's having an adverse impact in relation to the value of the Australian dollar against the US dollar. It's a question of keeping our calm, maintaining our basic direction but recognising that there have been communication failures and there are areas where we could make a better job in the future of insulating people against the impact of change.
MITCHELL:
Communications failures, so you think there was nothing wrong with the policies, you just haven't sold it properly.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think the general direction of policy has been very sound. I mean, the results are there. I mean, we have repaid $50 billion of Government debt, we do have lower interest rates, we do have a balanced budget, we have had, until the December quarter last year, very strong economic growth. There were particular transitional reasons for that dip in December. So it is fundamentally a strong story.
MITCHELL:
So why is the Government on the nose?
PRIME MINISTER:
Because after five years no matter what you do and what the circumstances are there will always be some areas where you fall short of people's expectations. I mean, the Hawke Government, five years in, suffered swings of this magnitude in three by-elections in the late '80s, yet stayed in government, or Labor did, for another eight years.
MITCHELL:
You mentioned lessons, what are they? Is it that issue, is it communication?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it's a combination of recognising that at a time of the need for change - I mean, we have to have change, not in everything but in certain things, to build living standards and create jobs but in the process we have to explain fully the need for change and where it's possible to do so, we need to provide proper protection and support for people who may be effected by that change. And this is a lesson that all governments in modern western society have to keep relearning and keep fully understanding as time goes by. I mean, it's not easy to be in Government at a time like this. It's very challenging and it can be very rewarding because the opportunities for reform and improvement are immense.
MITCHELL:
Will there be any policy changes as a result of what's happening now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Neil, there won't be any changes in our general direction. The problem is one of definition. What do you mean by a policy change? Some people will say what we did with the BAS was a policy change, it wasn't. It was finetuning of implementation. We had a policy change in relation to petrol excise. But the general direction of the Government is set. To say that we won't ever alter anything of detail in the future, I'm not going to say that, of course.
MITCHELL:
Well, is taxation still on the agenda as an issue?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, taxation's always on the agenda. The budget is such that we don't have a capacity for major further initiatives in tax in the months ahead.
MITCHELL:
After our last discussion it was interpreted that you were looking at taxation cuts in the budget to personal income tax.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, I noticed that. Some people.I just answered the question that we always, if the opportunity is there, have a preference for lower tax rather than more spending. But right at the moment there's capacity for neither.
MITCHELL:
Was it an error to let John Moore go?
PRIME MINISTER:
At the time I thought it was a reasoned risk because it gave me the opportunity of a very significant reshuffle. I had a choice of either him staying on as Defence Minister until the election or going. He said that if he left, which was his preference, before Christmas he would resign and I took the view that the Government would benefit from a significant reshuffle and I have no doubt that it has. That's no criticism of the Ministers who are gone but there does come a time in the life of any Government where a certain amount of generational change is helpful.
MITCHELL:
Mr Howard, Kim Beazley said there should be an election called now, which obviously is what an Opposition Leader would say, but is it possible to have good government in this environment? I mean, the Government must be preoccupied by its problems, its political problems, its problems of survival. You and your other leaders have put a lot of time into the Ryan by-election itself. Is it possible to govern well until, say, November with this over you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course it is. That call by Mr Beazley is absolutely self-serving. I mean, this is the third version. He was saying at the time of the Olympics that I was going to have an election before the end of last year. He said a few weeks ago that I was going to go as long as possible and now he's calling for an election now. I mean, don't take any notice of that. That is completely political, self-serving rhetoric.
MITCHELL:
Are the gloves off a bit with Kim Beazley now? I noticed on Friday you had a bit of a go at him about his reaction to a recession, are the gloves off?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the gloves are always off between a Prime Minister and Opposition Leader according, as far as I'm concerned, to the Marquis of Queensbury rules. I mean he wants to be Prime Minister. I don't think he could do a better job than I'm doing and I will fight very hard to defeat him but I will do it in a manner that is above board and is not personal. I have no personal dislike of him. He's a political opponent. I think his position is one of policy emptiness but I don't have any personal dislike of him. But I'll be very tough where it's deserved. And I think his talking, using the language of recession was quite unacceptable and wrong and against the national interest and I said so.
MITCHELL:
The Treasurer at the weekend, or as reported at the weekend, was ruling out any possibility of a challenge to you, is that something you wanted him to do?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I didn't ask him to do it but I understood that was his position and it's been his position for a long time.
MITCHELL:
Backbenchers traditionally get nervous, does that concern you? I'm sure there will be some saying, oh, we need a new leader.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't see any evidence of any agitation in that direction, Neil.
MITCHELL:
On this result, if extrapolated, you'd have 30 set seats left in the Parliament, are you confident still that you can avoid that between now and the election?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I am, Neil, but you should never make the mistake of extrapolating by-election results. I mean, we won the Adelaide by-election with a swing of 8.5% in the late '80s. We got a 11.5% swing in Port Adelaide and something like a 12% swing in Oxley. That wasn't repeated in 1990. Hawke won that election.
MITCHELL:
Thank you for your time. You seem very relaxed. You can't be enjoying this, can you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Neil, I've been through a lot of tough times. If I'm to do my job properly I have to keep things in perspective. The most important responsibility I continue to have is providing good government for the country and I need to be able to handle the political part of my prime ministership without allowing it to contaminate good government.
MITCHELL:
You've always said you enjoy a fight, are you enjoying this?
PRIME MINISTER:
I always enjoy a political fight. I've had plenty of them and this one will, you know, rank with many of the tough ones I've had.
MITCHELL:
Are you going to win it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I believe I will but it will be very tough.
MITCHELL:
Thank you very much for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay.
[Ends]