Subjects: Petrol excise; Telstra; discussions with President Bush; Minister Kelly; Fiji; Sir Donald Bradman; national apology to indigenous Australians.
E&OE................................
MANGOS:
Now a number of economists have labelled this petrol tax cut reckless. Now some are saying you've gone into policy panic mode, not least of which your opponents. Have you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I haven't and it's not irresponsible. We still have a strong budget surplus in prospect next year and all of the out years. You'd expect Mr Beazley to attack me, I mean he really wants it both ways. He's been calling for something to be done about reducing the excise and now I've done it he's criticising it. But that's just the sort of negative opposition that you come to expect from him. What is good about today's decision is that it makes long term reform of the taxing of petrol. It delivers long term reform, the abolition of the automatic indexation of petrol excise, those automatic tax rises that were first put into the system when Mr Hawke was Prime Minister back in 1983. They will now be gone so far as petrol is concerned and that will be very widely welcomed by people.
MANGOS:
Prime Minister, you've been arguing against these cuts for many months now. When did you change your mind?
PRIME MINISTER:
I guess I came to the conclusion a week or so ago after a lot of thought and listening to a lot of people that I'd plainly made a mistake as far as the level of sensitivity and concern is. I know that I've been saying that it wasn't necessary, I accept that and I'm not going to try and deny what I've previously said. It was quite obvious to me and to my senior colleagues that the Australian public felt the Government was unfairly taking a stubborn position on this issue just for the sake of not wanting to change. And I don't think that is fair or reasonable of a Prime Minister to do. I mean there are occasions in the life of the Government when it is necessary because of the overwhelming public feeling on something for a Government to change course. There's nothing wrong with that, only a stubborn, pig headed Government never changes course. The important thing is that the change has to be responsible and I'm quite certain that the change is.
MANGOS:
Certainly, and you've admitted that you've made the mistake. Now would it be facetious of me to suggest you're a bit spooked by the results in Queensland and Western Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look people can make any suggestions they want to, I mean that's for the commentators. I'm the participant, I'm the player, I'm the advocate. We looked very carefully at what we could do, I said earlier this week that I was straining every sinew to try and respond to peoples concern. But I wanted to do it in a way that was economically responsible. Now we have achieved both of those goals and in the process we've also delivered some long term reform of the taxation of petrol and that will be very widely welcomed. Those automatic tax rises every six months are now gone as far as petrol is concerned. I mean this represents a very big tax cut for the Australian motorist over the years ahead.
MANGOS:
Prime Minister you've now backed down on the BAS, taxing Trusts and today petrol. What's next? Could it be Telstra's privatisation?
PRIME MINISTER:
No our policy on Telstra remains. We have a policy that conditional upon getting everything OK for services in the bush we'll proceed with a full sale. But we still some way to go in relation to that condition and that's been our policy now for a couple of years. It hasn't changed. Now, once again can I make the point that a Government that is never willing to show any flexibility is a stubborn pig headed Government. I run a strong Government, but I don't run a stubborn pig headed Government.
MANGOS:
Ok Prime Minister, you've said that the cut in the excise and the scrapping of the indexation shouldn't undermine your surplus. But isn't the future budget surplus still reliant on that sale of Telstra? And after all you do have an election later this year.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the budget figuring has taken account of our policy on Telstra for some time now. It's not a big part of our future budget but it's there and indeed as it happens, in the first year that it has any kind of effect it's not a subtraction. It's not something that has a big effect at all, it's just not a major issue so far as our future budgets are concerned. And the reason for that is that when you sell an asset you don't take the proceeds of the sale to the bottom line of your budget, the only ongoing budget savings are in fact the savings in interest through a reduced debt.
MANGOS:
Prime Minister you and I both know that we'll pick up the papers tomorrow and most of the commentators from Canberra will be saying that yes the Prime Minister did this yesterday and yes there just happens to be a Ryan by-election in a couple of weeks time. What a coincidence.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well once again I'm not going to become a commentator on the commentators. I listened to what people have to say, they were obviously very concerned about this issue and I came to the conclusion that the Government had to do something to demonstrate that we understood peoples anger and concern about the price of petrol. But we've gone further than that, we've actually delivered a long-term improvement in the system. And we're also going to look at a way of seeing if you can't better monitor price fluctuations. People are very angry that the price of petrol can go up and down within a very short space of time.
MANGOS:
But in reality Prime Minister it's not going to hurt you with a by-election coming up that you do really need to win.
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not going to be the commentator.
MANGOS:
No I know but.
PRIME MINISTER:
You're asking me to be a commentator.
MANGOS:
I'm asking if you're buying votes.
PRIME MINISTER:
What I'm saying to you is that we've delivered good policy that will benefit people and that's what today is all about. It delivers cheaper petrol, it guarantees that in future there won't be automatic increases in tax on petrol and it also offers the hope of a reformed system of taxing fuel in Australia and also the possibility of putting some kind of cap on price fluctuations. Now that's not a bad policy offering to the Australian motorist. You can say what you like about Ryan or indeed anything else but look at the quality of the policy that's been delivered.
MANGOS:
Ok, then lets look at the hip pocket, 1.5 cents when people can drive around the corner and see fluctuations of up to 9 and 10 cents.
PRIME MINISTER:
That's why we're addressing that fluctuation issue. We've got to make sure that in addressing that fluctuation issue we don't interfere with legitimate competition and we don't harm the independent retailers. Now that's why we have to explore it without saying that you can definitely do anything about it. But look the main reason petrol is dear is the world price and we can't control that. And after today nobody will be able to say that we haven't done our level best to try and help mitigate the impact of that high world price.
MANGOS:
Prime Minister are you nervous about the result of the federal election later this year given the backdowns that you've quite honestly and openly admitted that you've made mistakes on?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well John I've said for some time now that the election will be tough. But look that's not the issue. The issue is whether we do things that are good for the Australian people. I mean in the end whether I win or lose is not as important as the quality of government we deliver in the time we're in office. And what I'm asking people to do is to judge me on the quality of policy. I mean they're not interested in my political future any more than they're interested really in Mr Beazley's political future. They're interested in us doing things for them. Now all the time, you know if I may say so with respect, commentators and interviewers are always asking me to comment on the politics. I would rather talk about whether what we've done is good for people rather than whether it's good for me or bad for me. That's for other people to say.
MANGOS:
Of course Prime Minister but don't suggest for a minute that you don't want to win the next election.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well of course I want to win the next election. But I am in the end accountable to the Australian people for the things I do that effect them.
MANGOS:
Okay let's have a look at a couple of other issues. Now I understood you've spoken recently with President George W Bush.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I have.
MANGOS:
What did he say to you about the region? Did he talk to you about Indonesia at all?
PRIME MINISTER:
We had quite a long conversation about the situation in our region and particularly about Indonesia. We also talked very briefly about our own bilateral relationship. But it was quite a discussion about our region and he also gave me something of a briefing on the current state of the United States economy. It was the sort of conversation that for me was very welcome very early in his term. It indicates a capacity for us to communicate very freely with each other and it was a very valuable conversation.
MANGOS:
Did he indicate to you where he'd like Australia to stand on Indonesia?
PRIME MINISTER:
No it wasn't that kind of conversation John. I mean we will stand on Indonesia...our stand on Indonesia is really the stand that we think is appropriate for Australia. We are a close ally to the United States but we make our own mind up about our relationship with Indonesia. But because we are in this region we have some understandings with Indonesia that perhaps are superior to the understandings of others.
MANGOS:
Prime Minister a couple of other topics if we could. Jackie Kelly, are you going to stand her down from the frontbench while the federal police re-examine these claims of electoral fraud?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I understand that what's been claimed is an allegation that's come from the Labor leader in the Senate, not from somebody else. And I don't normally stand people down on the basis of allegations by Labor Party frontbenchers.
MANGOS:
Is there not a federal police re-examination?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm not aware that there is any reason which would require me to stand her down. I mean the Labor Party makes allegations the whole time and I'm just not going to sort of roll over every time Senator Faulkner jumps up and says this is outrageous you ought to stand her down. I mean we're slightly more serious than that.
MANGOS:
Okay, except that Wayne Swan for example was stood down when he was under federal police examination. Isn't it part of keeping the bar high?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well except that in relation to him there were some allegations not made by us but made by others. I mean the point here as I understand it, unless something's happened in the last few hours of which I'm not aware and that's always possible, I've been doing a few other things today, my understanding is that these allegations have in fact come from a Labor Party frontbencher. Now come on, let's get more serious than that.
MANGOS:
Okay Prime Minister let's move on to talk quickly about Fiji. What should happen there in your opinion?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I welcome the decision by the Court of Appeal and we want a return to democratic government and we would welcome very warmly and very positively the interim government or however it might be described in Fiji obeying the decision of the courts. And if in fact the rule of law is maintained by everybody accepting the decision of the court that will win Fiji a lot of friends around the world and it will be seen as a very important step down the path to a return to democratic rule.
MANGOS:
Prime Minister the death this week of Sir Donald Bradman. Now you're a confessed cricket tragic if I may use, I think it was your word, and a big fan of the man himself.
PRIME MINISTER:
It was actually Mark Taylor's word but I don't mind it being used.
MANGOS:
Happy to wear it of course. Now the Government's kicked in $100,000 for the Bradman Memorial Fund. Obviously a generous donation. What do you expect it to be used for?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's to be used for encouraging the playing of cricket by disadvantaged people including indigenous Australians. And I know that others will give very generously to this fund and I can't think of a finer way to help perpetuate his memory. There'll be many ways in which that memory is perpetuated. A lot has been said about him, a lot remains to be said. It is a quite extraordinary demonstration of the place that he's held and the affection of generations of Australians that there should have been such an outpouring of reaction when he died.
MANGOS:
And Prime Minister you'll be attending the private funeral but given that it's meant to be private I assume you won't be saying anything?
PRIME MINISTER:
I certainly..it is a private funeral. My wife and I are attending it and I'll be leaving this interview almost immediately it's finished to go to Adelaide. But I don't wish to speak. I respect the fact that it is a private funeral and although people know where it is, I'll be attending it but it's just not appropriate out of sensitivity to the fact that it is private to say anything other than that I'm honoured to represent in a sense the government and the broader Australian community at this very important event.
MANGOS:
Prime Minister just to wrap it up, and you mentioned indigenous Australians when we talked about the $100,000 grant. Now given some of the capitulation and some of your admissions of mistakes, are you in any way, shape or form likely to say the sorry that indigenous Australians want to hear between now and the next election?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I'm not...look I've said frequently that I'm sorry that indigenous Australians were not fairly treated in the past. I've said that repeatedly, repeatedly. But I do not support the giving of a formal national apology. I mean there is a difference between admitting your own errors and mistakes, which I'm always willing to do when they occur, and accepting responsibility for something for which you were not responsible, and over which you had no control. So the answer's no.
MANGOS:
Prime Minister we're very grateful for your time on SkyNews Australia. Thank you for joining us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[Ends]