Subjects: Discussions with the President of Indonesia, Prime Minister of Portugal and King of Jordan; East Timor; Oil prices; United Nations; Cabinet; John Laws; Aboriginal Affairs.
E&OE..................................
PRIME MINISTER:
Ladies and gentlemen, since arriving in New York I've had three bilateral meetings all of them this morning, the first with President Wahid of Indonesia. That was a very useful meeting. It's the second time that we have met. He volunteered at the beginning of the meeting his desire to visit Australia in the second half of October. He suggested that the meeting be preceded by a meeting of the Ministerial Council of Indonesia and Australia. That's a body that brings together four or five Ministers from the two sides and has met on a fairly regular basis for the last what, ten or so years. The next meeting is due in Australia and it could be brought forward and that was his suggestion and I agreed that that would be a very good idea and that could take place before the visit by the President and the bilateral discussions between the President and myself.
He also suggested that following the meeting in Australia there should probably be a quadrilateral meeting involving Australia, Indonesia, Portugal and East Timor to take place probably in Jakarta, certainly in Indonesia. I said that we would readily agree to that proposal as well.
I raised with him Australia's concern about the militias. He shared my concern, he understood why we would be concerned. He indicated that he would do all he could to minimise their disruptive behaviour and he spoke of the resettlement of them and was generally understanding of what I had to say about the militias. I did express to him that they continue to be a very real concern to Australia and the Australian people.
We also discussed the price of oil and its impact on the domestic price of petrol in many countries. He understood why the matter should be of concern and he indicated to me that he thought that the world price should be stabilised at around $US25 a barrel, which is a good $8 a barrel lower than what it is at present. He said that that was also the view of two other oil producing countries, Venezuela and the [UAE]. There will be a meeting of the oil producing countries I think on 10 September in Venezuela.
The bilateral relationship was also discussed in general. We both agreed that good progress was being made in relation to trade and economic matters. There was an ambience about the meeting of moving on and of being positive and working together to strengthen the relationship and I found the meeting very positive and I'm glad I've had the opportunity of talking to him here in New York and of course as I've said on many other occasions, he's very welcome to visit Australia and I hope it is possible that that visit takes place.
My meeting with the Portuguese Prime Minister was the first such meeting I'd had with him, I think probably the first meeting between an Australian and Portuguese Prime Minister for many years. We talked a lot about East Timor. Portugal has a longstanding historical interest and is very willing, in a very straightforward, upfront way, to play a part in helping in the rebuilding of East Timor and he's very keen that there be close co-operation between Australia and Portugal in that connection. We talked about recent events, we talked about the militia, he shares our concern about the activities of the militia and will do what he can in his spheres of influence to assist our advocacy in that regard.
The other matter of interest that we discussed was the common agricultural policy of the European Union, of which Portugal is a member. He made the observation to me that he thought the admission of Poland into the European Union might have some positive impact on the common agricultural policy so far as Australia was concerned. I expressed the long-held Australian grievances about the operation of that policy and we agreed to provide some more information to Portugal about the basis of our concerns and our complaints.
My meeting with the King of Jordan is also the first occasion that I've had as Prime Minister to meet him. He and I spent almost all of our time talking about the situation in the Middle East. Jordan, of course, has played a key role in bringing the Palestinians and the Israelis together. I spoke of my recent visit to Israel and my meeting with not only the Prime Minister of Israel but also Mr Yasser Arafat. We both agreed that this was historically the best opportunity there'd been for a lasting settlement and it was important that every opportunity be taken by both sides to bring it about and I certainly came away from the meeting impressed with his personal commitment and the bona fides of the Jordanian Government and the Jordanian authorities. Jordan of course has carried a very heavy burden as a result of the unresolved conflict in the middle east because of the large number of refugees and the responsibilities that Jordan has in that regard and I can understand his very legitimate concern to see that a process brought about a very beneficial result.
I also, consistent with my loyalty to the Australian team in all events, wished his sister well as a member of the Jordanian equestrian team at the Olympic Games in Sydney.
Any questions?
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard President Wahid's visit, is that now firm because [inaudible] do you regard this as a firm commitment that he is definitely on the way?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm just repeating, telling you what he said and it was agreed after the meeting that our officials would talk about the details but certainly he raised the subject. It is true that there have been occasions in the past when what was projected didn't eventuate and I can only report to you in a bona fide way what the President said to me and I have no reason to doubt that he has given the matter thought and that's what he said and he said that the visit should be preceded by the Ministerial meeting and his Foreign Minister was present at the discussion and I said that our officials would now get in touch with their officials to tie down the details. I will actually keep you informed and if there is any change you will be told.
JOURNALIST:
Are there about four or five Ministers on the.
PRIME MINISTER:
About four or five - my recollection and somebody to my left might correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand it's the Foreign Minister, the Trade Minister, the Industry Minister and the Treasurer and they nod, so I must have it right.
JOURNALIST:
Did President Wahid offer any practical suggestions towards the resolution of the problem with the militias and is the quadrilateral meeting a quadrilateral meeting of leaders ?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'll be there and the President will be there and I'm sure, judging by his reaction to the idea, the Prime Minister of Portugal will probably be there. As to who will be there from East Timor well, whoever, I would expect Xanana Gusmao, I can't think of anybody else. That's an interesting question - is there some hidden meaning in that that I've missed?
JOURNALIST:
No, no - you only described it as a quadrilateral meeting as in four countries. I wondered if it was the Leaders or the Ministers.
PRIME MINISTER:
I took it to be the leaders - I'll be there. It'll be a leaders' meeting, yes.
JOURNALIST:
And practical measures on the militias?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, he spoke of the need to get camps shifted and I thought that was practical. He did spend quite some time talking about the desirability of relocating people.
JOURNALIST:
And did the Portuguese offer any [inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they are - their thinking was along the same lines.
JOURNALIST:
..[inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, very much along the same lines.
JOURNALIST:
You spoke of a positive atmosphere, of moving on - the twelve month anniversary of the vote, is there a sense that that's a sort of a landmark now and...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, if it were it was something that was unspoken. I mean we didn't talk about - this is our second meeting and it was a very positive meeting as was the first one. We're both realistic, we know what's happened in the past, we don't want to dwell on it. He's clearly anxious to build the bilateral relationship but there are obviously different points of view and conflicting points of view in his own country and I understand that. We didn't dwell on the past, we just talked about ways of addressing the militia. The militia issue I raised very early in the meeting and I returned to it again at the end because it is very important to us, but I thought the tone was good. Now, I can only report to you what was discussed and what was said, and I'm a realist in these things. Things can change but I thought it was very significant that he suggested the Ministerial meeting. That is due and he suggested well let's have that meeting first and then we'll have his visit and then we'll have the quadrilateral meeting and naturally as far as I'm concerned the quadrilateral meeting should take place in Indonesia or in East Timor, whatever suits his convenience.
JOURNALIST:
If he does visit Australia, will that be to Canberra or Sydney..
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that's something we can work out. He's always said to me in the past that he would like to visit a number of places and I imagine if he goes ahead with the visit to Australia he'll want to come to Canberra and to Sydney and to Melbourne. There are a couple of universities who wish to confer honorary degrees on him - one of them I think is Deakin or LaTrobe, one of the Victorian universities, and I would like that to happen. He will also want to come to Sydney and to Canberra and I think if he does come to our country it will be a full blown visit and he'll be very welcome. I don't think it will be a question of just slipping in and out of Darwin.
JOURNALIST:
Did he give any impression as to what others in Indonesia may be feeling at the moment towards Australia? In the past he's indicated that he was willing to come but indicated there were still...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, no he didn't really go into any detail on that. He may have made some reference to different points of view on his visit in a fairly lighthearted way. It didn't seem to be weighing heavily upon his mind.
JOURNALIST:
Did you find there was less emphasis on that at this meeting than at the previous meeting?
PRIME MINISTER:
Slightly less emphasis, yes, although I don't want to be held to that Dennis.
JOURNALIST:
About the militia, did he speak generally or was he really specific that he would do something?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, his reaction when I raised it was yes, we are all concerned about the militia. And the thrust was we are doing what we can and we will try and keep it up and we are worried about the impact and the behaviour of the militia and it is not acceptable.
JOURNALIST:
So it was really in terms of processes underway rather than..?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Michelle I wouldn't have thought that as a result of my raising it at this meeting he would have, you know, immediately thought of another initiative. I don't think, I mean that's not quite how these things work. Look I think it's important for me to speak carefully in relation to this. The militia is a continuing worry to us because it threatens the lives and safety of Australian men and women in East Timor and there's no doubt in the minds of the Indonesian Government that we're serious about it. And I think they are taking measures. I don't think there's any doubt about that. We just want as much to be done as possible and that inevitably means if different ways can be thought of. But I mean you're not in a position to sort of demand an inventory of every single thing that's being done. I mean it doesn't quite.these meetings don't quite work that way.
JOURNALIST:
Did he offer advice, did he offer any of those details of what..?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well he talked about the relocation and that's very important. Very important.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, why is it so important for Portugal to have an ongoing role?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well a couple of comments on that Karen. If the Indonesian President wants to invite Australia to a meeting in his country and to invite other countries it's not for me to...I mean it's his country, it's his invitation and as a matter of ordinary courtesy he's got a perfect right to invite who he wishes.
JOURNALIST:
You met the Portuguese Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the Portuguese Prime Minister asked to see me and why wouldn't I see him. Portugal's had an historic association. The new East Timor state has decided to adopt Portuguese as its common language so there's obviously a connection there, and Portugal has offered a lot of financial assistance. And my view frankly is that the more people we can get, particularly from Europe, interested in helping rebuild East Timor the better and I welcome them with open arms. I really do. I think, I mean as the time goes by and the interest and the focus diminishes, the experience of these things is that you need willing participants and if anybody offers to help you extend the hand of welcome to them and that's essentially my attitude towards Portugal.
JOURNALIST:
What about the issue of the timetable for Australian troops to be in East Timor - was that raised by.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, that's not really something that I would have thought was other than tangential to the discussion because that really is a matter between us and the United Nations and the people of East Timor, rather than us and Indonesia.
JOURNALIST:
Will you be discussing that point with Kofi Annan this afternoon ?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I will. My position is, as I put it on The 7.30 Report about a week ago, I said that we wouldn't let East Timor down and we will do our job, but no Prime Minister would enthuse about an indefinite presence. I think that that is the best way I can put it.
JOURNALIST:
The leaders of the peacekeeping mission in East Timor overnight have voiced a wish to significantly increase the rules of engagement with the militia, to allow them to effectively shoot without warning and to engage the.
PRIME MINISTER:
Who has expressed that wish?
JOURNALIST:
The Thai leader and also supported by an Australian.
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven't seen the details of that Mark so I can't comment. I'm sorry, I haven't.
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister what are you going to say to leaders while you are here who would say that Australia is withdrawing or sorry reducing its commitment to the United Nations in the year that the world is celebrating the new millennium at the UN.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, if anybody does say that to me, and I don't think anybody will, because it's wrong, but if anybody were to say it, I would say that they were wrong. We are not reducing our commitment to the United Nations, but we are expressing legitimate concern, and serious concern, about the way the committee system operates. Australia is the tenth largest contributor to the United Nations. We have always, unlike some countries, paid our money on time, without fail and without quibble, and we have been an active participant in all of the core activities of the United Nations. Australia on a per capita basis takes more refugees than any other country except Canada. Australia is one of the very few countries in the world that continues to maintain a humanitarian refugee program of any significance. I looked at a list of what countries take and some of the numbers that are taken by countries as affluent as Australia are quite, you know, minimal. They are nominal, they are not really large numbers at all.
But we have a legitimate concern about the way the committee system operates which was articulated by Mr Williams and Mr Ruddock and Mr Downer and I will be saying the same things when I see the Secretary-General. I will allude to this issue in my address to the plenary session. I will be talking about a number of other things as well but nobody should be in any doubt that we are serious about our concerns. But what we are talking about here is a complaint about the way the committees operate, but as far as our commitment to the core values of the UN, its peacekeeping role, its disarmament function, its humanitarian reach, I mean Australia has always been very supportive of those things but they are really in a sense separate and apart from the argument that we are having.
I mean it really does go back very much in the eyes of the Australian Government, operating as it does in such an open, transparent, robust democracy, that the sort of things that we have had comment from these committees about are really things that have to be resolved in Australia by Australians through Australian institutions. Now I assert that very strongly in any part of the world and that does not in any way derogate from all the peacekeeping operations we have been involved in, something like thirty since the UN was formed, and the leadership of the most recent, and in many respects, one of the more successful of all of those operations to date.
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister you are also going to meet the Commonwealth leaders.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, this afternoon.
JOURNALIST:
How much do you expect the recent events in Fiji and the Solomon Islands to feature in those discussions ?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Karen, the meeting this afternoon is a specific remit from the Durban meeting about the future structure of the Commonwealth and it is going to be totally focussed on that. There is a meeting of CMAG which is the Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group, of which Mr Downer is a member, and that really is the body that more appropriately deals with things like Fiji and the Solomons because the group this afternoon just has a delegation or a remit from the full meeting to deal only with the structure. But I particularly wanted to be heavily involved in that meeting because we are hosting the next meeting and this afternoon's meeting is going to be chaired by President Mbeki from South Africa.
JOURNALIST:
But you wouldn't be discussing .
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, its not on the agenda and I wouldn't expect that it was appropriate for this body to talk about it but it is appropriate for the Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group to talk about it and I have no doubt that it will come up at that meeting. I think that that meeting is taking place next week and Mr Downer will be going to it.
JOURNALIST:
You brought up petrol prices - you mentioned petrol prices.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the price of crude oil.
JOURNALIST:
How confident are you that world oil prices could return to $25 a barrel. They have expressed that's their intent, that's their wish. But if...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I said that one of the OPEC, the leaders of one of the OPEC countries had said it was his view and the view also of two others that it ought to be around $25 a barrel. Look I don't want to make any wild predictions but it all underlines the fact that Australia is being hit heavily at the bowser now because of world oil prices. And that's the reason why those meters are clicking over faster at the bowser. It's because of the price of world oil. That's the problem.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, do you think while you're moving around here there will be generally a negative view about Australia because of what they've heard coming from.
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don't think so. I mean I've been walking up and down the streets and nobody's complained yet to me about it. No but seriously..
JOURNALIST:
It has got under your skin though, what has been said by some of these committees?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think it's got under my skin, I think it's wrong. And when you're the Prime Minister and you think your country is being wrongly treated you say so, you react. And I find 'under the skin' a strange description of a measured reaction. I mean it came after a four-month examination. It was not timed to coincide with anything. We said four months ago that we were unhappy with the way these committees worked and we set about a study of what we should do. And we've given quite a measured sensible response. We didn't, if you actually read what we've done it's measured and sensible, it's not arbitrary. We're not seeking to abrogate our responsibilities. We're seeking to improve the operations of these committees so that they give a fairer hearing to democratically elected governments and not pay more weight, give more weight to the views of non-elected bodies than they do to the views of an elected government. I think that's a fairly reasonable point to make. And I've actually been encouraged by the support our stance has received from quarters I didn't expect to receive support from.
JOURNALIST:
Which quarters are those?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think I'll keep that to myself.
JOURNALIST:
Could you give us a clue?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let me say the reporting in Australia was not universally critical.
JOURNALIST:
On a housekeeping matter [inaudible] briefing tonight?
PRIME MINISTER:
This man on my left. A briefing? Well Michelle, I mean yeah, tonight. I'm always very wary of guaranteeing..is that all right? Can you do that?
JOURNALIST:
...do that because [inaudible] in our news cycle.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah I'm sorry for the arrangement of Greenwich Mean Time.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, there's a story in this morning's Financial Review that's going to newsagencies this morning that there could be Cabinet reshuffle after the Olympics and Mr Reith could take Mr Minchin's Industry portfolio.
PRIME MINISTER:
You know I never react to that sort of speculation.
JOURNALIST:
No possible Cabinet reshuffle at all?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think Cabinet's terrific.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard did you change any money at the airport when you arrived, and what do you think of the value you got for your Australian dollar?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I haven't changed any money yet, but of course, the Australian dollar is low against the American dollar but that's because the American dollar is very strong. I mean the American dollar is strong against every currency but I don't speculate on those things. One more question and then I must go. Now who hasn't asked a question.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, did you gain any impression of President Wahid's health?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I thought he was very robust. I remarked to a lot of people that he seemed very well and robust and very much on the ball.
JOURNALIST:
Do you have any reaction to John Laws's sentencing overnight in Australia...
PRIME MINISTER:
It's not right of people in my position to talk about individual sentences. I said that last Friday when I was asked to talk about the jury's verdict. I just think it's wrong. I think we are lapsing too quickly in this country into running commentaries and that applies also to the comments of judges on certain political issues as well. I think it would be a good idea if we went back to the old convention whereby politicians didn't comment on individual court cases and judges didn't comment on individual political issues.
JOURNALIST:
Isn't that a function of a robust democracy...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes it is a function of a robust democracy because the function of a robust democracy is..depends very heavily on the separation of powers and responsibilities. Judges have immunity from removal except for proven misbehaviour and their decisions should be respected. And I don't think it's right for politicians to give running commentaries, not on individual court decisions. I mean I just think we've all got into bad habits and that applies to some of the judges as well. That's why I said it applies on both sides.
JOURNALIST:
What sort of issues would you consider political issues that judges shouldn't comment on..
PRIME MINISTER:
Well a political issue.
JOURNALIST:
.you sent Mr Laws a message last week via Mr Conde, can I ask what the message contained...
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I have all sorts of communications with many people of different shapes, sizes and influences in the media both at a journalistic, ownership, proprietorial, and managerial level and I neither confirm nor deny the nature of private communications that I have with people in the media.
JOURNALIST:
We've seen reported some rather uncomplimentary anonymous remarks from the Labor front bench about the aboriginal affairs portfolio.how do you see the status of the Aboriginal Affairs portfolio.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I thought that remark, and you all know the one you're referringto, I thought irrespective of who does the job and what place it is in the ministry or shadow ministry, that was a tasteless and offensive remark and I think most Australians would feel that way. I have every confidence in the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, John Herron. Every confidence.
JOURNALIST:
Do you think the portfolio has the appropriate status in your government, I think Mr Beazley suggested in response to that that he would elevate it to cabinet [inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh well I mean..what matters is the commitment the individual brings to the job and John Herron brings an enormous amount of commitment. Not everybody agrees with his views but he brings sincerity and decency and commitment. And he has my total support. See you later.
[Ends]