Subjects: mandatory sentencing; tax reform; private health insurance;
media coverage
E&OE..........................................................................................
CAMERON:
Welcome Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you Ian, it's good to be back.
CAMERON:
And it's nice to be talking to you once again.
PRIME MINISTER:
Different location, same face, same personality.
CAMERON:
Just a little bit ruddier, a little bit rounder of girth, but still the
same person lurking deep inside there. Now I invited listeners earlier
in the week to send us through by fax, by email by letter, some questions
to put to you. I pointed out that they could be as blunt as they like
but keep a civil tongue in their head or a civil pen on the paper which
they have generally done. And we're going to get through as many
questions as we possibly could. So I'll ask you to be as succinct
as you can with the answers this morning. Firstly a comment on probably
the big news of the day, and you would have seen the comment in the Sydney
Morning Herald by an old mate of yours Margo Kingston. Is the Prime
Minister blind or merely a hypocrite? Are you blind or a hypocrite?
PRIME MINISTER:
Neither. I think she's talking about mandatory sentencing.
CAMERON:
She is.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well our position on that is that criminal law has traditionally been
an area of State responsibility.
CAMERON:
Is that ducking it a bit [inaudible] say that?
PRIME MINISTER:
No it is not ducking it. I mean there are many things that States do
I don't like. I mean I don't agree with heroin injecting rooms.
But unless those are clearly in breach of an existing federal law I don't
favour using the foreign affairs power to overturn what a State's
deciding to do. I think most Australians take the view that whatever attitude
they may have on things like mandatory sentencing, or heroin injecting
rooms, they are things that ought to be resolved by Australians in Australia.
And to resort in a legalistic way to international conventions in relation
to those issues for federal governments to do that in order to overturn
the decisions of State governments, I believe is upsetting the federal
balance.
Now my critics, including Margo Kingston, will immediately say well what
about euthanasia. You allowed the federal parliament to override the views
of the Northern Territory. Well we didn't use the external affairs
power there, we used a clause in the Commonwealth Constitution which allows
federal parliament to override territories. You can't do that in
relation to the States. The other point I'd make is that that was
a conscience vote. That was a free vote issue. And in any event the Northern
Territory was setting a national benchmark, starting something new at
a national level by the law that it proposed to introduce. And many people
felt that if that law was going to be changed it oughtn't be driven
by the smallest, population wise, the smallest jurisdiction in Australia.
CAMERON:
Well when Kofi Annan was here in Australia just in recent days you had
an opportunity to talk to him. I understand you didn't talk to him
about mandatory sentencing laws. In fact it didn't come up. And yet
we now learn that clearly Kim Beazley, the Leader of the Opposition did.
And he has asked the United Nations to intervene. Do you take a dim view
of the Opposition Leader doing that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look, I just take the view that we are mature enough to make decisions
on these matters ourselves full stop. Whether it's done by the State
parliament or the federal parliament, most Australians and I note here
in Western Australia that Geoff Gallop, Kim Beazley's Labor colleague,
has in effect told Mr Beazley to stay out of the issue.
CAMERON:
But he's playing for a Western Australian audience.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well yeah. I mean I've got to take a view that I think is good from
a national perspective. I mean I personally doubt the value of mandatory
sentencing laws. I personally doubt them. There are a lot of things States
do I don't agree with. I personally doubt.....I'm strongly
opposed to heroin injecting rooms.
CAMERON:
Are you worried though that this might effect our reputation internationally.
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don't.
CAMERON:
Mary Robinson is a woman who commands a lot of respect.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well just because she's carrying an investigation....I mean we
shouldn't sort of so lack confidence in our own judgement as a people
and as a nation that every time somebody breathes the name of an international
figure we have to automatically assume that what we are doing is wrong.
Now it is for the people of Western Australia in the end to decide whether
they like mandatory sentencing laws. Asking me as an individual I personally
doubt the value of them. I doubt the value of them particularly in relation
to people under the age of 18. Do I think we should use our external affairs
power to overturn a law enacted by the Western Australian government with
the support of the Western Australian Labor Opposition, no I don't.
CAMERON:
Right. Okay we'll move on because I didn't want to get bogged
down on that one this morning even though it is obviously leading the
news bulletins today. From our listeners now. From Andy in Beachbrough,
and I'll just identify people in that regard if that's okay.
Prime Minister, you've had a lot to say in recent years about
the unfair tax burden on single income families. How then is it fair that
a family with one $50,000 income will pay the Timor levy, but a family
with two or more $49,000 incomes will not pay a cent towards it?'
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that would be a valid criticism if we had not taken special measures
in not only our 1996 election policy, but also in the tax plan, to give
additional benefits to single income families, and we have done that.
Single income families with one child under five years will effectively
after the 1st of July have close to two tax free thresholds.
CAMERON:
Is it still enough? Do you think it's gone far enough?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well no, well the answer in isolation is no it's not. It's
never enough in any of these areas.
CAMERON:
Well nothings ever enough.
PRIME MINISTER:
No exactly. But we are the first government to reverse the trend against
single income families and I would like to do more.
CAMERON:
Do you recognise that they are getting a bit of a rough deal at the
moment?
PRIME MINISTER:
No no, look, if we hadn't have taken these other measures it would
be a valid criticism. But we do have a system in this country where you
do recognise that each person is an individual, and that if somebody goes
out, works, whether they're married to somebody or not.....
CAMERON:
That is their right.
PRIME MINISTER:
That is their right. I mean, I think people should have a choice and
that is why I have tried to give more help to single income families.
And I repeat I'm the first Prime Minister in 30 years to really
reverse the trend against single income families. I would like to do more,
and I hope I can. But I'm not promising anything at the current time.
CAMERON:
Do you feel this family in Beachbrough will be markedly better off after
July 1st, a single income family earning over $50,000?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well if they have children, particularly if they have children under
the age of 5, yes they'll be significantly better off. I mean I think
the average family, that is with an income around the $40,000 mark is
going to be about $47 a week better off as a result of the tax package.
$47 a week. And I'm very grateful that Mr Beazley over the last few
days by focusing on his plans about income tax have drawn the public's
attention again to the fact that part of the tax plan, a big part of it,
is to cut income tax.
CAMERON:
Now Mrs Lindsay Smith has written to say I have two children
aged 20 and 23. On their wages there is no way they can afford private
health cover yet their employer is paying compulsory super for them which
they'll not benefit from for 35 to 40 years. Would it not make sense
for employers to pay compulsory health cover for employees, say up to
age 30, and then super from age 30? Surely that would ease the burden
on the public health service without effecting the super entitlements
of young people in 35 years time. It would also lessen the financial burden
on employers and therefore reduce youth employment' What do you think?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can understand that argument and a lot of people advance it.
I guess the reservation that a lot would have about it Ian is that the
question of whether you have private health insurance or not should be
your decision, and should not be a decision forced on you effectively
by the government. We would like to encourage you to do it, and I encourage
all of your listeners to take out private health insurance.
CAMERON:
But in this case these kids can't afford it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well when they say they can't afford it, I mean I don't know
their incomes. It may be that they put a greater priority on something
else. I don't know. I mean without knowing what their incomes are
it's very hard to make that kind of judgement.
CAMERON:
But [inaudible] very low incomes it would be hard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I know young people who are earning less than $20,000 a year who've
got private health insurance.
CAMERON:
What, they starve for the rest of the week?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't know. But I mean, these things are all a matter of
choice. A lot of retired people, a lot of pensioners have private health
insurance on very low incomes.
CAMERON:
So that scheme would not be workable as far as ......?
PRIME MINISTER:
No no. Look, you could do something like that but I'm not sure as
a matter of principle you should force people to take out private health
insurance. You should encourage them to. You should have some, I suppose,
carrots and sticks to make sure they do. But I think if you take the quantum
leap and say it's exactly the same as superannuation, I don't
know. I mean it's something that there should be more debate about.
I don't say that it's the craziest idea I've heard. But
it's not something we have on our desk at the moment.
CAMERON:
Well Fred and Ella Dickenson, I suspect these are pensioners. Why
will the GST be imposed on site fees paid by residents of manufactured
homes, mobile homes or caravans in permanent situations? Many Australians
live in this kind of accommodation, many of these home owners are retirees
and pensioners who have remained in the same location for many years.
Your government has said that rent on houses and flats will be GST free.
The situation for the above residents is unclear. [inaudible].'
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the situation for the above residents is that it will be optional.
The operator of the park can either have a 5% GST and claim back all of
the GST that he's paid on his inputs to run his business. Or alternatively
there's, he can what is called input tax, and in other words not
charge the GST, but not get back his inputs. Now as far as the tenant
is concerned, as far as those two people are concerned.....
CAMERON:
Fred and Ella.
PRIME MINISTER:
......Fred and Ella are concerned, their financial position either
way will roughly be the same.
CAMERON:
So they shouldn't be [inaudible]?
PRIME MINISTER:
They'll be no worse off under what we've proposed because
if the landlord or the operator elects to take the input taxing route
then I think that might be reflected in the rent, and the reflection in
the rent would be about the same as the 5% GST.
CAMERON:
There's been a lot of confusion that's gone on with the way
pensioners will be affected after the 1st of July because I
know there was a compensation package, but after as one of my colleagues
calls her Mother Meg, has had a bit of a meddle around in there. Will
that be watered down?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that compensation package has been improved. The position of pensioners
will be totally protected and their pension will go up up-front by 4 per
cent and there'll be a guarantee, and there is a guarantee in the
legislation, that the value of the pension will be tied to movements in
average earning so it won't be, the increase won't be eroded
over time. There's a savings bonus. There's increases in income
earning limits. There's a whole range of things.
CAMERON:
So you honestly believe and feel there should be an over, it's an
over-compensation?
PRIME MINISTER:
It is, it is a, on the advice to us it's an over-compensation and
I'm pleased about that. I want that to be the case. I want retired
people to understand that they would be fully protected. That this a good
plan for the whole country and it's a plan that takes account of
their special position.
CAMERON:
Whilst we're on the subject of the GST Annette has written to say
"could you tell me how the GST is going to help people on low incomes,
as I feel the rich will get richer and the poor poorer. On my low income
I'm worried it's going to hit me a lot as it's going to
effect foods to other basic essential needs".
PRIME MINISTER:
No fresh food is essentially not subject to the GST.
CAMERON:
It's clear of it?
PRIME MINISTER:
That's right. And if she's earning any income at all and paying
tax she'll get a tax cut. If she is, and I don't know whether
she has a family or not?
CAMERON:
I don't know.
PRIME MINISTER:
But there are increases in the income earning limits in relation to the
family allowance supplements. There are increases in family allowance,
the family benefits. There are special additional loadings in the tax
system in relation to family responsibilities. And without knowing her
income, whether she has children and all those sorts of things, it's
very hard to give an exact figure. But we have been quite meticulous in
compiling this package and taking account of the position of low income
people. We don't want to hurt them. We want to help them.
CAMERON:
In the days when I used to try and explain the GST it was always my view,
and my sincerely held view, that it was those in the community who had
most brass and the big spenders are the ones who are going to be paying
the tax.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there's one huge area now that's not subject to a GST
that will be and that is eating out at a restaurant. And the people with
large incomes, habitually, eat more frequently at expensive restaurants
and they will have to pay a GST on that. They will have to pay a GST on
a lot of, a whole lot of other things that they use. Now, when you bear
in mind that the tax cuts have been designed in the main to assist lower
and middle income earners, I think people will find that it's a very
fair package. I mean 80 per cent of Australian taxpayers, as a result
of this plan, will be on a top marginal rate of no more than 30 cents
in the dollar.
CAMERON:
Changing the subject now entirely and sorry to be pushing you along like
this. We had a caller very early this morning who is asking me, and welcoming
the idea of the fact that our troops should be recognised for the marvelous
job they did in East Timor and a welcome home. What about the troops who
are still there? Are we tending to perhaps overlook them because there's
still a large number there?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no. We will recognise their contribution in an appropriate way. We
are keeping about 1500 to 2000 there as part of the United Nations blue
helmet force. But you can hardly do anything about them until they actually
come back.
CAMERON:
Until they come home eventually. And we just had hot off the press the
Uniting Church has announced that Australia's first legal heroin
injecting room will be located at a former Kings Cross pinball parlour
at 66 Darlinghurst Road and it's been approved by the New South Wales
Police Commissioner, Peter Ryan, the New South Wales Health Department
Director General. Do you have a reaction to that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes well I don't...now this is a decision that the New South
Wales...
CAMERON:
You've never agreed with it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don't agree with it now and I think as time goes by it will
not be seen as making a contribution, a positive contribution, but it's
a decision of the New South Wales Government and the New South Wales Police.
They are entitled to take that decision if they believe that that's
good policy. We have to get to a maturity in this country in relation
to who's responsible for what. And this proposition that every time
something happens it's got to be immediately either certified by
the Prime Minister or the Federal Government or overturned by the Prime
Minister or the Federal Government is immature. We live in a federation
and the States have got responsibilities and we've got ours.
CAMERON:
We've only got a couple of minutes left and I'll try to get
through what I've got remaining here but the cost of a beer in the
pub and this is something
PRIME MINISTER:
Something over the counter will go up by 7 per cent.
CAMERON:
By 7 per cent. Yep. But we were always told and I've got this from
reliable information and I've checked it. It would be around 1 to
2 per cent.
PRIME MINISTER:
No you were told and I remember being asked this question in the context
of a beer being bought and a packaged beer being bought out of a bottle
shop and it will go up by a much lesser amount because there's no
service component in it.
CAMERON:
Right.
PRIME MINISTER:
And we never represented that the 1.9 per cent increase applied to draught
beer across the counter. I certainly didn't. I was asked, I remember
that question, I was asked on the John Laws programme somebody from the
Kempsey bottle shop.
CAMERON:
So you remember that vividly.
PRIME MINISTER:
I remember very vividly and the bottle shop. Now the reasons, the explanation,
is very simple. The explanation is that if you buy a slab of beer, a packaged
beer, from a bottle shop there's no service component and there is
the removal of some embedded wholesale sales tax.
CAMERON:
Over the bar.
PRIME MINISTER:
Over the bar because there's a service component it's dearer.
CAMERON:
How do you feel about the way that you've had a fairly vicious attack
made on yourself by certain members of the press in Australia and I'd
say a certain family owning some press, right down to really tacky sort
of stuff being brought up that your son might have been at a party that
something happened at last year. Does that affect you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that particular article did annoy me, upset me and it annoyed my
family, but my son sort of moved on and I don't particularly for
his sake want to go over it.
CAMERON:
Of course.
PRIME MINISTER:
But my view is that I treat each individual news story and news coverage
and individual journalists and their attitude, I treat them on the merits
and I've been critical of the changed attitude of some newspapers
in relation to tax reform in recent months, just as I've on occasions
been critical of the ABC for example.
CAMERON:
That hasn't escaped your attention obviously.
PRIME MINISTER:
No.
CAMERON:
Now you would know that Paul Murray, former editor of the West Australian,
is taking over here on the morning programme in a couple of weeks time,
would you consider talking to him on a fortnightly basis do you reckon?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I guess that's a matter for him to put to me. I wish him well
but that is I guess a matter that should be discussed between him and
my press secretary.
CAMERON:
Okay well if you won't talk to him surely you'll talk to me
again sometime.
PRIME MINISTER:
Ian I'm always ready to talk to you.
CAMERON:
Thank you Prime Minister we appreciate your time in coming in this morning.
Enjoy the rest of your stay in Western Australia and a safe trip home.
PRIME MINISTER:
It's always great to be in the West.
(Ends)