Subjects: GST and tax reform; Centenary of Federation London trip
E&OE................................................................................................................................
DALLY:
Well Opposition Leader, Kim Beazley calls it the beginning of the nightmare. For Prime Minister Howard today's introduction of a broad based consumption tax is the realisation of a 22 year dream to overhaul Australia's tax system. And while he says the verdict on the GST won't be in until Christmas the Prime Minister will take to the streets today to witness first hand how Australians take to the tax. But first the Prime Minister joins us in the studio. Good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Helen.
DALLY:
Are you expecting a nightmare out there today and over the next few days?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I'm not expecting a nightmare, the it's a ridiculous attempt to scare people. I believe that it will be accepted fairly calmly. It will take, probably four to six months before most people make a final judgement on it. I think you've already seen from that newsagent a bit of snap shot of what's going to happen. Some things will go up, some things will go down and some things will stay the same and everybody will have a tax cut. And that's the reality of it for more than 80% of the members of t he public.
So I think this attempt by the Labor Party and others to scare people witless, to rub their hands together and hope it all falls over which is really what they've tried to do and what they're continuing to do. I think is pretty short sighted and against the national interest. But the public will decide this.
DALLY:
But, I mean it's not just not the Labor Party is it. I mean they might be using scare tactics but there are small business people who are saying...
PRIME MINISTER:
I mean there's never any excuse for deliberately trying to scare people. Anyway we will see. We have put a lot of effort into this because we think it is good for the country. And it's been risky, it's been hard, it's been difficult and we'll wait and see what judgement the public makes and I will accept that verdict with complete equilibrium and good grace whatever it is.
DALLY:
Okay you gave an address to the nation, felt the need to give one, a kind of pep talk. And that was on top of a very expensive multi million dollar ad campaign to sell the GST. Is that an indication that you feel there really could be a backlash come back against you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's an indication that it's a very big change and it deserved a big information campaign. And most of the money, that multi million dollar campaign, most of that was spent on information. Some of it was spent on you know what you might argue was also the advocacy part of it. But that was in...
DALLY:
The propaganda part as Graham Richardson called it.
PRIME MINISTER:
But that was informative too. I mean those chains ads, well they were telling people how much they were going to get. I mean I saw man this morning saying there was no information. I mean there's been hundreds of millions of dollars spent on information.
DALLY:
Yeah but I guess that's an indication that he hasn't got the message through. And are you blaming those people for not getting the message?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I'm not. Look I'm not in a blame mood. I'm not blaming anybody. I've worked very hard for this because I've believed in it very deeply. And I hope it works well because I think it would be good for the country. But like everybody else I have to await the verdict of the Australian people.
DALLY:
Okay what happens when that verdict comes? You've admitted your head is on the block over this and that you'll give yourself until Christmas to convince voters, to win them over. What happens if you don't?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I didn't say, no that's not quite what I said. What I said was I thought by Christmas people would have made a judgement about it. I think it will be positive.
DALLY:
What happens if it's not?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't deal in negatives Helen. I'm a very positive people.
DALLY:
But I mean is that a kind of ultimatum you've set yourself that what the GST will change or you'll change in some way if they don't accept by Christmas?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don't set myself ultimatums. I don't deal in that way. Look Helen I've led a change which I think is good for the country and I believe very deeply that it will be well accepted but as always in a democracy if you are the elected leader you've got to accept what people verdict is.
DALLY:
Do you think it will be an election issue as far away as that next election is?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, I think it will get a run. Yes I do. Well the Labor Party's got nothing else. They don't have any policies to bless themselves with. They wouldn't have the courage to try.
DALLY:
But it is a pretty big change.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes it is a big change and they wouldn't have the courage to do it. So it will be interesting to see where they are in twelve months time if they haven't put together some kind of alternative to this and the world doesn't fall apart as they hope it does. What they really hope is that this will be confusing, painful, difficult and everything. I mean I think it's a pretty wretchedly, negative approach to take to the affairs of the nation but that's their responsibility, not mine.
DALLY:
Are you proud to say that this tax system is the crowning achievement of your quarter century in politics?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh you never, you know there's always something more Helen. I am very proud...
DALLY:
Have you got something else in store for us do you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course you always have things in store. Look I want to thank my colleagues for the help they've given me. This has not been a single achievement. I'm not a one man band. I've had enormous amount of support and loyalty. Peter Costello as Treasurer has done a fantastic job. Many of my other colleagues have helped. And I also want to thank the business community for the effort they've put in to getting ready for the change.
DALLY:
Prime Minister would you mind staying and we'll talk more after the break?
PRIME MINISTER:
Absolutely.
DALLY:
That would be great. We'll take a break now and more of the interview with Prime Minister, John Howard after that.
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DALLY:
Welcome back to Today on Saturday and our special guest this morning is Prime Minister John Howard. Prime Minister the incident this week where a 17 year old was able to access private banking details of thousands of companies that logged on to a Government GST site. Isn't that a major problem for the Government and really your fault for not having a more secure site?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well this of course is quite unrelated to the GST.
DALLY:
But it was a GST site.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes but if there is a case to made about lack of security that's not a GST thing, that's another issue. That is being investigated at the moment by the police and until that investigation is completed I can't really say more than to deplore it and obviously deplore those who've tried to make political capital out of it like Mr Simon Crean who sort of thinks it's clever to use this as an example of alleged GST ineptitude rather than condemn the illegal act.
DALLY:
But I mean those companies whose banking details could have been faxed, could have been put out on the web and they weren't. They could have been used in some way illegally. They would want to be warned and yet you're blaming both the hacker and the Labor Party.
PRIME MINISTER:
But Helen what I'm saying is it's being investigated by the police and until that investigation is finished I really can't, you know in situations like this you can't give a running commentary.
DALLY:
I'm just wondering if you think the security of Government sites has to be more of a priority?
PRIME MINISTER:
Helen when I get the report from the police and from the relevant Minister I will have something to say about that. But until this time I can't really say any more.
DALLY:
There has been a lot of criticism about the actual way both the Government and the Tax Department has installed this new GST. You say there's been a lot of information but still people seem to be confused. We had the lady from the coffee shop this morning not knowing whether a plain glass of milk would attract GST and she's got to start dealing with that from this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Helen it was always going to be the case that there would be some confusion. You can't make a change like this, it is demanding the impossible to make a change like this without there being some glitches and some challenges. I think people who sort of sit and wait to pounce every time there's a glitch are being unreasonable. But that having been said, the Government, and I appreciate that people need help and I've made it very clear that if people make genuine mistakes with the implementation of the new system we're not going to pounce on them. We want their compliance but we don't want to penalise people who make inadvertent errors. And I get a mixed reading I've got to tell you. I go around a lot and people naturally talk to me about it and I ask them and most people I speak to, sure they're in small business they say yes there's quite a bit of work but we are ready. Some aren't or weren't a few weeks ago. I hope they're ready this morning. But no matter how long you leave, I mean if we'd have put it off for two years you'd still have this last minute bunching. You know what human nature's like. Oh tax reform, that's in six months time, I'll get around to it in May. Now that was basically what a lot of people were saying at the beginning of the year particularly if you're in small business. I mean you live for the day. The customers you know walk in the door. Forget about the system let's go and serve him. And that's human nature. But Helen it is demandingly impossible to think that you can have something like this without there being some transitional challenges. What's important is firstly whether it's good and how it's all going to bed down. And it's certainly good and I'm very positive it will bed down well but it will take a few months.
DALLY:
How do you feel and do you accept some responsibility for forcing out some small business people out of their businesses?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I haven't set out to force anybody out and if people say they're leaving because of a new tax system I think there's more to it than that.
DALLY:
Well some don't want to and don't have the funds they say to gear up to buy new computer systems and cash registers. You don't accept that?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I mean given that there is tax help for that and other assistance that's not the reason they're going out of business. That's not plausible to me. It really isn't plausible. I don't think it's plausible to anybody who stops and thinks for a moment. There are some people in the cash economy who don't want to be in the tax net and I've got to say I don't have a lot of sympathy for that nor should any of your viewers because they've been paying their taxes religiously each year and so have you and I and in those circumstances I don't have a lot of sympathy. But I don't think there's as many of those as popular legend would have it, I really don't.
DALLY:
Just finally. Are you happy about going off to England on a trip, taxpayers expense and leaving the rest of Australia to try and cope over the next few days.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well every time a Prime Minister has gone overseas and it was the same with Mr Keating and Mr Hawke it was paid for by the taxpayer. I mean I'm not going to accept that.
DALLY:
No but at this particular time. I mean it's such a difficult time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I'm going to be away for eight days and the system will have been in operation for a few days when I go. Peter Costello will be here. I'll be in touch very regularly and it's a very important bilateral relationship and it celebrates an important event. And the answer is I think it's entirely appropriate. I don't feel otherwise. And it's easy for Mr Beazley to sneer at it but he was never reluctant to travel.
DALLY:
He's not going though.
PRIME MINISTER:
No he's not going because he thinks he can make political mileage out of it not because there's any merit in his decision to stay behind.
DALLY:
Are you going out and about today?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
DALLY:
Prime Minister enjoy it.
PRIME MINSTER:
I will.
DALLY:
Thank you for you time.
[ends]