E&OE...................................................................................................
SATTLER:
First up this morning I'll be joined, and I think he is in the
studio in Canberra our sister station 2UE studio in Canberra, by the
Prime Minister. And he is in the centre of a row at the moment - he'll
wonder what I am talking about - it's a row over a desk, that
of the late Prime Minister Sir Robert Menzies which John Howard's
had moved into his Parliamentary House suite. The designer of the
modern desk it replaced has described the Prime Minister as [inaudible]
bankrupt. Dear oh dear. Well, before we go into weightier matters
the Prime Minister, I think, is on the line now. Good morning Prime
Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Howard.
SATTLER:
Okay, what about this desk?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, for the benefit of your listeners it was moved into my office
a year ago so it's not something that has just happened. It wasn't
Sir Robert Menzies desk, it was the desk that was put into the Parliament
House when the temporary one was first built in 1927 and it was occupied
and used by every Australian Prime Minister from, I think, SM Bruce
in 1927 through to Gough Whitlam very briefly in 1972. And it was
obviously occupied and used by Bob Menzies but also by John Curtin
and by Ben Chifley and by John Gorton and all the Prime Ministers
that were there between 1927 and 1972. I would regard myself as being
historically sensitive in wanting to use this desk. I am not using
it because of some particular nostalgia about Sir Robert Menzies even
though I am immensely proud as a Liberal of the contribution that
he made to this country, I think he has been Australia's greatest
Prime Minister. But I am also conscious that it was used by John Curtin
and it would have been from that desk that John Curtin made many of
the important decisions that affected the deployment of Australian
forces during World War II....
SATTLER:
Yeah but you have got to be careful of these interior decorators,
they are a bit precious.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think they are. I think we have got to get a sense of proportion
but the history of the office to me is more important than anything
else. And we need to treasure our history and surely a desk that has
been occupied, used by both Menzies and Curtin can hardly be regarded
as a Liberal Prime Minister's desk. Frankly I think some people
take themselves a little too seriously.
SATTLER:
All right. We'll get off that matter because it's not....
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think it...I really think that your listeners would
not see the point of.....
SATTLER:
No, they don't care a hoot about the desk quite frankly but I
thought I'd ask anyway.
PRIME MINISTER:
You had to ask me I know.
SATTLER:
Yeah, that's right. All right, let's talk about weightier
matters. What did cause the Government's about face over the
Kosovo refugees because we do know that initially you were rather
reluctant to actually bring them half way around the world to here,
what was it that changed the minds of yourself and the Cabinet?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think it's a bit unfair to categorise this thing as,
sort of, a huge volte-face. Remember that it was only, I think, on
Monday that we first heard that NATO countries were going to take
refugees and by lunchtime on Tuesday, even though we are not a member
of NATO, we decided to take 4,000. So I really think this talk about
a belated response....
SATTLER:
Oh, I don't know the word is belated but....
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, people are....I mean, let's focus on the decency and
the substance of what has been decided rather than the nit-picking
observation that because the Minister responded within current policy
in some way we had an enormous change of heart. I mean, when this
crisis developed so rapidly over the weekend and on Monday when it
became apparent that other nations were going to take refugees I concluded
that it was a matter we would discuss at Cabinet.
SATTLER:
But was there one, sort of, vision that moved you particularly, I
mean, those pictures on television are just unbelievable?
PRIME MINISTER:
Like any other Australian I am deeply moved by what I see every night.
I saw a lot of it during the day over the Easter period. I mean, it
is an awful human tragedy, it is appalling what is happening to these
people.
SATTLER:
But did you sit at home with your family and say, we have just got
to do something about it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course I talk to my family about it and of course I watch the images
and of course we discussed the human misery, of course we did.
SATTLER:
All right. Now, the problem now, and I think it might be is where
are we going to put them. There is some dissension around the place
about....
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think once again, once again people are, sort of, running
off at the mouth and getting excitable. Why don't we just, sort
of, calmly wait for a day or two. The arrangements, I can assure you,
are very well advanced. There has been a lot of work done in a very
speedy and efficient manner over the last 48 hours. It is an emergency.
When you have an emergency situation you have to respond in an ad-hoc
way and, I mean, there is no alternative. We didn't have a month's
notice of this. The decision was only taken on Tuesday and I expect
that my Immigration Minister will be able to say something in more
detail over the next few days.
SATTLER:
Well, he told me on the programme yesterday that he wasn't opposed
to them filtering into the community. What do you think about that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, he is going to cover all of those things. Look, we want to do
a number of things. We obviously want to help and we said we can take
4,000 people. You can't just overnight at the snap of the fingers
find 4,000 pieces of accommodation evenly spread throughout the entire
Australian community. It is obviously going to be necessary initially
for people to be received in a particular area. There will need to
be health checks made and so forth. And then there'll be a process
of people going to different parts of the country. Now, I would just
counsel people who are, sort of, conjuring up visions of refugees
being dumped in the desert. I'd just counsel those....
SATTLER:
Are you talking about Kim Beazley now are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I am talking about a number of people. Just sort of...they
should just slow down and give us a few days. I mean, it is really
the hide of unreasonableness to say to a government in response to
a likely need for refugees that only emerged a few days ago that took
a decision within 36 hours it is meant to have every answer 24 hours
later. I mean, that is the hide of unreasonableness and I think most
Australians and people listening to your programme would agree with
me. But the immigration people and the emergency relief people and
the health department people and foreign affairs have been working
overtime since the decision was taken.
SATTLER:
When do you expect the first people to arrive here?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Mr Ruddock will have something to say about that over the next
few days but it won't be very long.
SATTLER:
I wondered what you also thought of some of the protest here against
NATO. We had one down at Fremantle last week where the USS Princeton
was visiting and one of the protesters went up to an Australian man
carrying an Australian flag and spat on it. What do you think about
that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I condemn that and Australians will condemn that.
SATTLER:
Shouldn't that person be removed from this country?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, if he is an Australian citizen he has the same rights that you
and I have, that doesn't stop....
SATTLER:
Oh sorry, it was a woman by the way.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, she has the same right. I know a number of Australians of Serbian
descent who strongly disapprove of that kind of behaviour. I mean,
every Australian has the right of lawful protest, every Australian
who has got a family connection with another country has a perfect
right and it is an understandable human reaction to be concerned about
what is happening in that country. But when it goes to the extent
of breaking the law that is a different matter. When it goes to the
extent of demonstrating a greater concern for the other country then
the customs and the attitude of the Australian community it is another
matter and they rapidly lose sympathy. But by and large I think the
impact in Australia within different communities has been a lot more
muted and restrained and positive than some of us feared it might
be. And by and large most Australians of Serbian background see themselves
overwhelmingly as Australians first and foremost but having an interest
in what's happening in many cases their former homeland and that
is perfectly understandable. And our argument is with Milosevic it
is not with the Serbian people many of whom were magnificent allies
of the Allies in World War II.
SATTLER:
Indeed. Right Prime Minister I want to take a break and then I want
to talk to you about a war much closer to home, the drugs war so we'll
return in just a moment.
[Commercial break]
You're with Howard Sattler and my guest, for his regular
segment on this programme, is the Prime Minister of Australia, John
Howard. Prime Minister, as I said, I wanted to talk to you about a
war much closer to home. It's a war that, in fact, spreads around
this globe but it's badly affecting us at the moment and tomorrow
you'll be meeting with our Premier and his counterparts on this
issue. In this morning's paper a funding row is being flagged.
Is the Government going to commit more funds to this fight than you've
already announced?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there won't be any funding row on drugs. Heaven's
above.
SATTLER:
I'm only reading don't believe what you read then.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you know, it's very dangerous sometimes. You know, the
old story, it must be right because you've read it in the papers.
SATTLER:
Well it calls it a funding standoff over drugs.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes, I saw it, that's in The Australian, isn't
it?
SATTLER:
That's right, yeah.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, that was a rather ill informed interpretation of an interview
I did on radio yesterday into Brisbane. We will be putting some more
proposals on the table. I've already communicated the outline
of those proposals to the Premiers. It obviously involves the Commonwealth
offering more resources.
SATTLER:
More money.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, yes. We will be significantly increasing our financial commitment
and we'll be offering to fund areas that have previously been
the total responsibility of the State governments. So how in those
circumstances any reasonable Premier will be able to stand up and
say the Commonwealth is being unreasonable. Just let me, so we have
no misunderstanding, we will be making an offer tomorrow that involves
the provision of a lot more Federal money in the fight against drugs.
SATTLER:
Than already announced.
PRIME MINISTER:
Than already announced.
SATTLER:
All right. Now is that going to include national programmes in schools?
PRIME MINISTER:
Part of it is education, yes.
SATTLER:
Because I think you would agree a uniform approach to this is required.
PRIME MINISTER:
A largely uniform approach, yes. I mean, you obviously have to allow
for some local variations but if we're going to commit the money
we naturally want a say in what the programmes are. The idea of just
saying here's a cheque, you do what you like with it no,
we don't agree with that. But we do believe that more effort
is needed. We have a three pronged approach. We need to do more in
education. We need to do more in law enforcement. And we need to do
more in providing treatment for those who want to break their addiction.
Now, we've already committed an additional $290 million in our
Tough on Drugs' programme. That, for example, has resulted
in two additional strike teams in Western Australia. That's something
I know the Western Australian Premier is very pleased about because
he's been campaigning for that for some time.
SATTLER:
Well, we're pretty exposed over here.
PRIME MINISTER:
You are and that is understood. And we've put a lot more resources
into customs and the Federal Police already. And what I'm going
to put on the table tomorrow will be more resources over-and-above
what is already in the field. So I don't want there to be any
misunderstanding. We're not putting and taking. We're not
robbing Peter to pay Paul. We will be putting forward to the Premiers
tomorrow some new proposals consistent with and building upon the
approach we've already had but they will involve significant
additional money from the Federal Government.
SATTLER:
All right. Now, how does $100 million sound, is that pretty close
to the mark?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh look, I'm not going to start talking about individual figures.
But there will be significant additional resources and some new approaches.
And I hope in the generally bipartisan approach that has characterised
this issue we'll have the support of the States. I mean, it would
surprise me if a proposal where we're willing to put a lot more
money into, that the States wouldn't be willing to pick it up.
SATTLER:
All right. So the headline should have said, Premier says there is
a deal coming up on drug funding, not a 'no' deal that's
what it says.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I just don't know where that headline came from. I mean,
the position is that I have sent to the Premiers and Chief Ministers
the outline of what we're going to have on the table tomorrow.
It does involve some new initiatives but they're consistent with
the approach we've already taken and we are prepared to support
that with significant additional Federal cash.
SATTLER:
All right. Now, another report this morning suggests the Government's
about to make a concession on the goods and services and tax reform
bills with $200 million offered to the States for public housing.
Can you confirm that?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. No, I'm not sure I know what they're broadly
referring to but I'm not sure where they got the idea that we're
going to make major concessions. Can I say the big news today on the
GST is that the Senate has just had a report from Neil Warren and
Anne Harding, the two people who were touted by the Labor Party as
likely to blow our plan out of the water. And Neil Warren and Anne
Harding have both said that food should stay in. And they've
also said that on any plausible assumption, reasonable assumption,
there aren't any losers. Now, we have for months and months been
told by the Labor Party that when it comes to experts on the GST there
is none better in the country than Neil Warren. And I acknowledge
that he's quite an expert. And I also acknowledge that he's
been quoted with approval by both sides of politics over the years.
And what he's said this morning is that food should stay in
I' N'.
SATTLER:
Have you rung Senator Brian Harradine to make sure he's read
that?
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven't rung any Senators this morning. I've been too
busy talking to you.
SATTLER:
He's the man you need to convince, isn't he?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, he's very important.
SATTLER:
He's the key.
PRIME MINISTER:
But he's a reasonable man.
SATTLER:
Okay, you hope.
PRIME MINISTER:
He's always a reasonable man.
SATTLER:
I mean, if you just don't get this thing past him what do you
do then?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, let's take things as they come. I'm positive, I've
always been positive about this because in the end I believe that
the will of the Australian people will prevail. And the Australian
people said yes to our tax plan last October and I don't think
the Australian people will easily forget a Labor Party and a Democrat
Party that blocks their freely expressed will.
SATTLER:
Yeah, well, you're not surely thinking that this report, that
they will move any of those people.
PRIME MINISTER: