7 September 1999
E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………….
PEACOCK:
Prime Minister, you’ve also been on the phone to Kofi Annan at the UN and President Habibie in Indonesia, was there any sign last night that Indonesia may accept this force?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there are some reports this morning that the Indonesians are considering the imposition of some kind of martial law in East Timor and there’s a suggestion that if that did not produce an improvement in a very short period of time then there would be a willingness to accept an international force. Now, our position for a long time has been to work towards being in a position to contribute in a major way to such a force. I indicated to the Secretary General yesterday that we would be willing to contribute up to 2000, we would be willing to accept a leadership role. That seemed to be the indication of the Secretary General that that’s what the United Nations would want if things were to move in that direction. It’s always been the case that there are some conditions on our involvement. The first and most important one is that it has to be a UN mandated mission. We need to be accompanied by other contributors. We’re not going to do it alone and that would be unreasonable and dangerous and unacceptable. And it is also still the case, much in all as it is difficult for some people to accept this fact, that unless there is some acknowledgement or acceptance by the Indonesians of the presence of an international force – and I say this not withstanding all the strong feelings that people have about the behaviour of the Indonesian Government and the Indonesian Army – unless there is an acceptance then it does amount to an invasion of another country. And no Australian Prime Minister is going to, in his right mind, get involved in that sort of situation. I have a responsibility to the armed forces of this country never to expose them to an unreasonable level of risk. Now, we have been working overtime to try and improve what is now a tragic situation. I know how distressed people are in Australia. I know how gruesome the TV images are. I have put our views very strongly about that in my discussion with Dr Habibie last night and he is in no doubt about the strength of our concern and our desire to see now, without any delay, an improvement in the situation. And our belief that if the Indonesian authorities can’t or won’t, or a combination of the two bring, bring the situation back to a tolerable state of affairs then the introduction of some kind of international force to assist is the only alternative. Now, we have made that plain. That is what we have worked towards and that is what we have bent every diplomatic and other effort over the last few days to bring about.
PEACOCK:
So how reassured are you about the idea of martial law and more troops, I mean…?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Matt, I will only be reassured when I see an improvement on the streets of Dili and that applies to all of us. We are in a situation now where every story of a further tragedy alarms us. I will act and respond to deeds but I must deal with the reality. It’s no good waving my arms around and saying, well, I wish it were otherwise and people should do this or that. We have to work hard at a diplomatic and other level.
PEACOCK:
But certainly it would appear that the Indonesian military’s actively involved.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the evidence is certainly in that direction and I made that plain when I spoke to the President. I understand that but what we have to do is not so much lament what has happened but try and stop it being repeated in the future and you try every device. Now, I spoke to the Secretary General four times yesterday and I rang President Clinton last night to…
PEACOCK:
What did President Clinton…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I rang President Clinton to brief him on my assessment of the present situation and I asked him whether the Americans would be willing to contribute to any international force. I said there would be a strong expectation in Australia that that should be the case. He said that he would consider that. He did indicate their commitments elsewhere. And I also put the view to him that anything that he could do to persuade the Indonesian Government to either asserting the authority of their armed forces and in default of that allowing an international force into Indonesia he should seek to bring about. Now, it was a very valuable and timely discussion and he’s obviously having further discussions with a range of people as American Presidents do. Matt, I am appalled at what is happening. It is doing a great deal of damage to Indonesia’s international reputation. We are alarmed at the loss of life. We have a responsibility to try and stop the violence. We have an obligation to contribute, as we will, in a significant and leading role to an international force if the circumstances allowing that force to materialise on conditions that are acceptable to the Australian Government and the Australian people.
PEACOCK:
And do you sense a shift in the Indonesian position, I mean, this declaration of martial law...?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Matt, there are reports to that effect around. I don’t, at this stage, want to say more than that.
PEACOCK:
How personally responsible to you feel over this evolving tragedy? I mean, it was, after all, your initiative with President Habibie that brought the ballot about.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I haven’t really stopped to worry about apportioning responsibility. I’m trying to get an improvement in the situation. I don’t regret for a moment that the Australian Government played a major role in persuading the Indonesian Government to have a ballot.
PEACOCK:
There’s been criticism this morning that it’s only now that the coalition of nations is being stitched together…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think that is a bit unrealistic. From Australia’s point of view we have been getting ready for the state of readiness we are now in if a peacekeeping force should materialise. We’ve been getting ready now for months. I mean, remember the establishment of the second brigade in the state of readiness was announced months ago by the Defence Minister. I mean, our troops are now down to a 24 hour state of readiness. We have been preparing for this methodically and comprehensively now for months. Now, it may not materialise. And, I repeat, there will be no – obviously we’re not going to involve ourselves in any kind of unilateral invasion of Indonesia. That is preposterous. But it is appropriate that we be involved in an international peacekeeping force if the circumstances allowing that to happen materialise and they are the willingness of the Indonesian Government, a United Nations mandate and sufficient company from other countries so that Australia is not alone.
PEACOCK:
And which other countries…?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, a number. I mean, I would hope that the Americans would be involved. I’ve had an indication this morning from the New Zealand Prime Minister, to whom I spoke before this interview, that there would be a New Zealand involvement. There’s been a Canadian positive response and I know the Secretary General is approaching a couple of other nations in the region. And I also understand that the Foreign Minister got a reasonably positive response from the British Foreign Secretary to whom he spoke yesterday. So there are signs of a greater international involvement and a willingness. But all of these things are conditional on there being a proper UN mandate and obviously on the willingness of the Indonesian Government. Now, we are working very hard on that. I don’t know that I can say much more specifically on that issue and we have been working very hard now for days. It is an extraordinarily difficult situation. I understand the frustration, the distress and the anger of the Australian community. I also have a responsibility in this situation never to commit Australian forces to a situation where they are exposed to unreasonable risk.
PEACOCK:
But in effect Indonesia’s being subjected to very intense diplomatic pressure – the IMF, all those agencies, presumably, have made their feelings very firmly.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I can’t speak for other other agencies but I can speak for the Australian Government and we have made our position very clear consistent with our desire to keep open the channels of communication. And also, despite all that has happened in the last 48 hours, to recognise that what the Habibie Government did to allow a ballot was something no Indonesian government had done for 25 years. And the fact that Indonesia has now moved towards a democratic state of government, those two things are to the credit of Dr Habibie. They are to the credit of his administration. And amidst all of the distress and the anger and the alarm about what is happening we should see in context those two achievements by Dr Habibie and give him proper credit for them.
PEACOCK:
Back on the ground in East Timor Bishop Belo, is he safe do you think?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the latest information I had was that he personally was. That was obviously a deplorable incident. I spoke last night for some time to Alan Mills, the Australian Federal Police Commander in East Timor, who’s doing an absolutely magnificent job. To use his words, he said, it’s a bit hairy, he said, but he expected it to be hairy and it is difficult. But I was filled with admiration for the calm and steely professionalism that he was displaying in an extraordinarily difficult situation. And I thanked him and I do so again on behalf of the Australian Government and the Australian people for the job that he and his men and women have done.
PEACOCK:
If it gets worse there are a couple of thousand refugees there at the UN compound, will we accept them in the same way that we did the Kosovars?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we will do everything that ought to be done in these circumstances. Of course we’re going to be humanitarian.
PEACOCK:
Prime Minister, thanks very much for joining us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Pleasure.
[Ends]