E&OE..................................................................................................
SATTLER:
I have Prime Minister John Howard on the line. Good morning Prime
Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
How are you, Howard, nice to talk to you again.
SATTLER:
Thanks for joining us on the programme. What are you doing in Sydney?
PRIME MINISTER:
Doing some work. I have met the United Kingdom drugs czar a few moments
ago. A very interesting man. We compared notes and it would appear
that the approach to dealing with the drug problem in the United Kingdom
under the Blair Government is fairly similar to the approach being
adopted in Australia. There is a mixture of giving more support for
law enforcement, more support for education and more support for treatment.
We spent almost an hour together. He is a former West Yorkshire police
officer and he's got an overall responsibility to assess systems
different from ours in that they don't have a State/Federal arrangement.
But I was impressed with what they have been able to achieve and he
indicated that he though the approaches were broadly similar. Obviously
they don't need and shouldn't be carbon copies but it's
all part of the, I guess, learning experience countries have who have
a common commitment to fighting this huge social problem. And I think
it's very beneficial. I have got a strong personal interest in
and commitment to the fight against drugs and I feel grateful that
we have got a lot of support from the State Premiers right across
the political divide. And I want as far as possible to keep party
politics right out of drugs in this country.
SATTLER:
Good. Do they allow heroin shooting galleries of the kind that are
in Sydney at the moment?
PRIME MINISTER:
No...well, he was very critical of that.
SATTLER:
You are too.
PRIME MINISTER:
I am very, very critical of that but of course it's a matter
for the New South Wales law enforcement authorities and the New South
Wales Government. But there's not a lot of support from the people
I speak to. It is seen very much as a stunt and I am very critical
of it. He certainly was.
SATTLER:
Okay. Let's talk about something that involved Western Australia
this week, you signed the Regional Forest Agreement and one of the
greenies tried to snatch the microphone. You probably were aware of
that were you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes, but they're the usual stunts. I mean, people keep running
them and I keep doing it.
SATTLER:
She has been charged by the way. Now, the thing I need to ask you
about that, as a result of that the greenies have declared war, they
say, on the Government here, probably war on the Opposition as well.
Does that worry you politically electorally?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I think there are some greenies who will never be satisfied. And
this outcome, the RFA outcome in Western Australia, is a very fair
and balanced package. It has won the support of the union that says
although it is unhappy it, in fact, says it's too green but in
the end it acknowledges with all of the difficulties that it is not
a bad outcome. And I think that is very significant. I mean, we worked
very hard to make sure that jobs in towns like Nannup were protected.
There is a potential to create another 500 new jobs in value adding
and the RFA and the funding under the RFA, and there's a funding
package of about $59 million to which we're making a significant
contribution of about $20 million, that funding package will support
activities in some of the towns that would otherwise be affected.
There is an increase in the formal reserve of 151,000 hectares and
with 12 new national parks as well as other additions. Now, you know
as a Western Australian and the listeners know just how heated the
debate has been and how difficult it is to get everybody totally happy
about every aspect of these RFAs....
SATTLER:
Yes but your critics are saying, one of the reasons why you came out,
they reckon, on side with the companies down there is that the companies
donate money to the Liberal Party...
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh get lost, really, I mean, not you personally....
SATTLER:
Are you telling me to get lost or....
PRIME MINISTER:
No, not you. I mean those critics. I'd never tell you to get
lost Howard.
SATTLER:
Thank you very much.
PRIME MINISTER:
That's all right.
SATTLER:
All right. Let's go north now if we could to the deal that has
been done between the Indonesians and Portugal over the future of
East Timor, the future leading up to the elections. Now, was there
any commitment, because I couldn't see it, to disarm the pro-Indonesian
paramilitaries?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
SATTLER:
So the commitment....
PRIME MINISTER:
There's a commitment in the agreement. There's a commitment
to ensure that conditions of peace and an absence of intimidation
obtains. And, look, this is a difficult issue. You can approach it
in one of three ways. You can do what we are doing and that is use
our influence to bring about a fair result, you can, sort of, wave
your arms around and say we are going to invade the place if you don't
behave now that's absurd or we can simply sever
all connection with Indonesia, threaten to withdraw our aid, threaten
to break off other ties unless they do as we ask them to do. Now,
everyone who understands the pride involved for Indonesia and the
history of relations between the two countries and common sense will
realise that that's not an option either. Now, what we have tried
to do is to use our influence. Now, we have been very successful.
After all it was my letter to Dr Habibie in December of last year
that was the catalyst for the change in policy by the Indonesian Government.
And there's no doubt in the world that the meeting I had with
Dr Habibie which involved a one-and-a-half hour one-on-one personal
discussion with nobody else present. That meeting received a lot of
international focus. There is a very heavy degree of international
pressure on Indonesia to see that the words of the agreement that
has been signed in New York are lived up to. The issue still requires
a great deal of very delicate handling but we have a formal commitment
now by the Indonesian Government to conduct a ballot to allow the
people of East Timor to decide their future. We have a commitment
from the Indonesian Government to ensure that proper conditions obtain
for the conduct of that ballot. Now, if you say to me, can I guarantee
there'll be no deviation from that, I can't do that. No
Prime Minister of Australia can do that. But what I can guarantee
you is that we have used our influence as a close friendly country
but having a strong view about the need to have a democratic process
in East Timor, to improve the situation immeasurably from what it
was a few years ago.
SATTLER:
Will our Federal Police that go to East Timor be armed?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it is our view they should have side arms, yes.
SATTLER:
Are you worried about their safety?
PRIME MINISTER:
I always concerned about the safety of Australians who are in trouble-spots
of the world. I mean, we have seen two humanitarian aid workers taken
into custody in Yugoslavia. Of course there is a danger involved and
I said last week in Bali and I repeat it today, I am not going to
pretend to the police who might go or to their families that there
isn't some element of danger. Of course there is. We have been
involved in police operations all around the world in recent years.
In Bougainville, in Cambodia, in Cyprus, in Latin America, in a number
of places. And our police have done it with enormous distinction.
But there's always an element of danger, I can't pretend
that for a moment.
SATTLER:
Are you going to meet the first Kosovar refugees tomorrow?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I'll greet them and extend a few words of welcome on behalf
of the Australian people. I believe that this is a demonstration of
the open-heartedness and decency of the Australian people. There's
great concern about what has happened in their homeland. We hope that
they will only be here temporarily in the sense that we would like
them to be able to go back to their homeland and I am sure they'd
want to do that. And it's the least that a country as fortunate
as Australia can do to take 4,000 of them and provide them with a
safe haven during these extraordinarily traumatic and difficult times.
SATTLER:
How do you rate former Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser's chances
of extracting Peter Wallace and Steve Pratt from their captors?
PRIME MINISTER:
I hope Malcolm is successful. I had a number of discussions with him
earlier this week. I have written to the Yugoslav President, reiterating
that these men were humanitarian aid workers, that they were doing
work for Serbian refugees. They were not in any way aligned with one
or other side of the conflict. I don't want to say too much because....
SATTLER:
I know but it's extraordinary isn't it, that you've
got three combatants with the United States Army, albeit in Macedonia
when they were captured, but they are released and their country is
at war with Serbia. We're not and yet we've got two peaceful
aid workers who are still captives. Amazing.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I certainly regard what is happening as quite wrong.
SATTLER:
Bizarre almost.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, but please, I choose my words carefully because my one aim is
to get them out, and that should be the aim of anybody who makes any
comment of any kind on this issue, and we are dealing with a delicate
situation. We are doing our level best and I just hope that we can
get them out.
SATTLER:
Prime Minister, I believe you met with the key voter on your tax package,
Senator Brian Harradine yesterday I think it was. How did you go?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we had a very pleasant discussion, and we'll have more.
I'm not going to give a commentary on what was said, or what
might be likely to be said in the future. He's a voter. There
are other voters too.
SATTLER:
He's a pretty important one.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that's if you just sort of accept that everybody else who's
voting in the senate has a right to ignore the decision of the Australian
people last October.
SATTLER:
Well I think they will won't they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they ought to think very hard about the outcome of that election.
But look, I've been through all of this before. Everybody knows
that we want to get our tax plan through the Senate, and everyone
knows we need a majority of the Senators in order to do it. And everyone
knows that we would like the support, if the Labor Party and the Democrats
and the Greens remain opposed, we need the support of Senator Harradine
and Senator Colston, and we're obviously going to try and get
that support. Now I respect Senator Harradine very much. I believe
he's got strong views on some things. We agree on a lot of things,
we disagree on others. I'm not going to speculate about how he
might vote. That's a matter for him in the end. I'll obviously
go on talking to him and the Treasurer and I will have further discussions
with him.
SATTLER:
Yeah, but if doesn't get up what happens to tax reform in Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I will deal with that if it doesn't. I mean perhaps you
should say that, you should put it to those who are escaping any of
the responsibility for voting against it now, like the Labor Party
and the Democrats, as to what happens in tax reform in Australia.
It's a very fair question. I mean we have been debating tax reform
in this country for 25 years. It is 14 years now since the Hawke Government's
tax summit. It's six years since John Hewson's Fight
Back'. We had an election last October. We have a ramshackle
tax system. It needs to be reformed. We had the courage to put a plan
down to reform but I think the Australian people would expect that
plan to be passed by the Australian Senate. But in the end the Senate
will decide. I hope that it passes it and I will do my level best
to persuade a majority of Senators, I don't need to persuade
my own, but a majority of Senators to pass the legislation.
SATTLER:
The Federal budget comes out next week doesn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
It does indeed. On the 11th of May.
SATTLER:
How can you possibly frame a Federal budget without knowing whether
the major plank in tax reform, your revenue base, is going to get
through the Senate? I mean.....
PRIME MINISTER:
Well very easily.
SATTLER:
How do you do that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well budgets are always framed on the basis that government legislation
will be passed by the Parliament.
SATTLER:
Well what if it's not? We'll have to have another budget
won't we?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, you won't have to have another budget. That's not the
case at all. The budget doesn't fall apart. Look they are related
but they are two separate streams, if you like, of economic management.
It is always the case that you frame a budget on the basis that legislation
sponsored by the Government will go through the Parliament.
SATTLER:
Good luck.
[COMMERCIAL BREAK]
SATTLER:
My studio guest, he's in our Sydney studios at least, is the
Prime Minister of Australia and he is inviting your calls in the few
minutes he's got left before the ten o'clock news on 9221
1233. Prime Minister, let's talk with Harley. Good morning, Harley.
CALLER:
Good morning, Howard. Good morning, Mr Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning, Harley.
CALLER:
I have a daughter that's just about she's pregnant
and she was due about three or four days ago and she heard the news
about the lady that was sent back to China with their one-child policy
and then her child was due to be born in ten days time and they just,
you know, virtually butchered it. The point I'm asking you is,
perhaps we could get the Minister for Foreign, Alexander Downer, to
take on board something like this because there's murder being
carried on, probably to some horrendous degree, far worse in China
than there is in Kosovo. Now, you know, surely just because China
is the biggest, you know, whip-cracker in the world doesn't mean
to say that they, you know, possess the ordained right to turn around
and just start, you know, butchering people just because they want
to have more than one child. I think this would be a far bigger platform
for Mr Downer to possibly take on.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Harley, in relation to the claim that's been made concerning
this lady, if that happened then I'm quite horrified and I'm
sure most Australian would be equally horrified. I'm having it
investigated. I discussed this matter with Senator Harradine yesterday
during a discussion that we had which covered a number of subjects,
not just taxation. I have also discussed it in some detail with Mr
Ruddock, the Immigration Minister, and we are waiting on a detailed
report from his Department about what happened. I can't pre-judge
the outcome of that. Mr Ruddock made the observation yesterday that
it's normally not the policy of airlines to fly people in a very
advanced state of pregnancy. I don't know all the circumstances.
We've just received the, so I'm told, all the video evidence
from Senator Harradine and the matter is going to be investigated
quite stringently because I am very concerned about this claim. I
am very concerned about it. It offends my own instincts and I'm
sure it offends your instincts and the instincts of millions of Australians.
Now, we can't govern what other countries do but we can, of course,
control what happens to people who are temporarily in this country
no matter what the circumstances are. It certainly would have been
against policy for somebody in that situation to have been returned
against their will.
SATTLER:
All right, Harley, thanks for your call 9221 1233 if you want
to speak with the Prime Minister. Hello, Marlene.
CALLER:
Hi, Howard. Hi, Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Hi Marlene.
CALLER:
Yes, all the aid we're giving to Indonesia now right, what happens
if later on we've trained them here so when they go back, what
happens if in 10 or 15 years down the line they want to overrun us?
They can because we haven't got the power or anything else to
save us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the likelihood of Indonesia invading Australia is extremely
remote. And that is not only my view, it's been the view of previous
Labor governments. The Indonesian Army's logistic capacity is
such that it couldn't possibly sustain such an invasion, quite
apart from the fact that there's no reason why Indonesia would
want to invade us. The aid and training of which you speak is not
so extensive as to make an enormous difference to that capacity, although
it is very valuable. We do give some foreign aid to Indonesia and
I defend that because Indonesia is our nearest neighbour and we have
an interest. It's for Australia's benefit that we have friendly
relations with our nearest neighbour. It's also for Australia's
benefit that we stand up for the things that we believe in and