PR~ ESS CONFERENCE GIVEN BY THE PRIME MINISTER,
THE RT. HO5N. SIR ROBER~ T MENZIES AT P-ARLIAMEN
HOUSE. CANEERRA. AT 3 P. M. ON 3RLD JUNE, 196i
PRIME MINISTER You will have a few questions, gentlemen but~
perhaps I ought to say something about the Premiers' Conference
and the Loan Council because there may be a few things there
that need a little clarifying. If you start with the revenue
grants, under the arrangement that we ultimately worked out',.
the position is this that in the current year t~ ie figure is
calculated at œ C34+ O7M. and that will, under the arrangements
we have now made, rise on the same assumptions. That is to
say, on the basis that population increase and average wages
increase resembles the period that is just concluded the
last five years that would rise it is estimatqd,
to œ 51OM. in 1969/ 70. That means that unless extraordinary
circumstances arise and if they do these figures might well
be increased the position would be expected to be that the
payments to the States will rise each year over the preceding
year by ( I will leave out the fractions for simplicity) œ 35M4.
in 1965/ 6, by f29.9 ( call it œ P3014.) in 1966/ 7, by œ 32M. in
1967/ 8, by œ E34M. in 1968/ 9, and by œ 371. in 1969/ 70.
Now thle point to be remembered about this is
that there are virtues from a State point of view in having a
five-year term I think the last one was six, but this time
we proposed five and that was ultimately agreed to. That means
that over that period of five years, the States can plan ahead,
knowing with some precision what they will be getting, year by
year. I don't need to point out to you that the Commonwealth
has no such assurance itself. Steeply rising defence expenditure,
for example, which goes up in 1965/ 6 by something of the
order of œ C80M., to œ C90M4. will, of course, put heavy burdens on
the Budget, Any shortfall on the Loan market to meet the
programme of works that was agreed on will of course involve
burdens on the Budget. A good deal of delence expenaiture will
be in the works field. That will add to the existing pressure:-
on resources of men and materials pressure wi ch already is
leading to bidding-up for scarce labour, particularly in the
skilled field where there is a considerable shortage. Therefore
the Commonwealth is left and I don't complain about this
with problems affecting its normal expenditures and its fiscal
policy and its defence policy which are all difficult but
which we will have to cope with from year to year. f think it
is worthwhile emphasising that because the position of the
States has a measure of stability and assurance that our own
position couldnft hope to have.
As to the amounts, what we ivrre aiming at was
to get a five years' agreement, This I think is very important
for the reasons that I have just mentioned the States
themselves like to know where they are, and I have had a lot
of experience in these meetings now, going over many years, and
each time there has been a discussion either about a period
agreement or before that, from year to year there has been a
little bit of what might be politely called bargaining. There
is no novelty about it. Somebody finally says, " Yes I would
like another quarter of a million, another half a million,"
and everybody goes into the corner, and out comes the quartermillion
or the half-million,
Any addendum to what has been proposed, mark
you, comes out of our Budget, not out of any other safe. And
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this has been done. For example in 1959, ( 1 wasn't here, I
was out of the country but the current agreement just expiring
was then worked out anA agreement was finally arrived at) the
State of New South Wales and I think there was another State,
received some extra grant. New South Wales secured a million
on that occasion, This was part of the price of the securing
of an agreement. Nobody complains about that, Nobody thinks
it is extraordinary. I suppose it has affected every State from
time to time over my period.
This time Mr. Bolte didn't find himself able to
agree to the five years' proposition. Mr. Askin had put up a
proposal which modified the one that I had put and modified it
in a way that was satisfactory to us and that secured the agreement
of five States but Mr. Bolte wasn't able to agree to it
and he made an argument which was worth consideration. He
pointed out that when the 1959 agreement was made ultimately
concluded New South Wales having obtained on that occasion the
extra million, the difference in the per capita grant to his
State, as compared with New South Wales was I think I am right
in saying 9/ 7d,, but the precise figure doesn't matter. What
he did point out was that by the effluxion of time and circumstances
that gap had risen by so that the differential
today was 13/ 7 don't hold me to the 9/ 7, but the difference
was And we considered this because we were very anxious
to get an agreement. If we didn't then one State at any rate
would come up next year and say, " We want to reopen this
argument. We are not bound by any agreement." Well that is
no good to any of us. We do want to have some certainty over
a period of years and so we had a look at it and decided that
we could meet this position by giving an extra payment to Victoriaby
the Commonwealth, not at the expense of any other State an
extra payment which would reduce the gap by and therefore
leave it as it was in 1959. We thought this was an equitable
thing to do. I went in and stated this to the Premiers and
Mr. Bolte said that under these circumstances he would be
prepared to become a party to the agreement, so that in the
result we have a five years' arrangement with all the States at
the expense of what I think amounted to about œ-600,000 a year to
Victoria. So that there is no novelty about this and really
I can't see that there is any particular grievance, If' I ha
been proposing to reduce what was going to another State, under
provisions to which they had all agreed at that stage( they had
all agreed), if I had said, " Well, I want to subtract something
from you who have agreed, in order to secure an agreement by
Victoria, that would have been something of a grievance. I
didn't. I said, " We loave all your allocation untouched, the
ones to which you have agreed, and we will add this out of our
own funds in the case of Victoria." Well, I don't need to
elaborate that. Those of you who have been familiar with
Premiers' Conferences over a number of years will not be
unfamiliar with these procedures and will not use offeasive
words about them because they are quite normal.
On the borrowing programme, we put forward a
proposal which we ultimately modified, and that was that we
decided that instead of holding the amount of the Loan Works
Programme as it was last year, which obviously would involve the
doing of a little less work because costs have risen, we decided
to increase our proposal by œ C514. and this was accepted by all the
States. This means, for example, that in the case of New South
Wales, which I think has roughly 4+ 0 per cent., this might be
oo .6 / 3
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worth œ 2M, But anyhow, the borrowing programme was increased by
There was a proposa put up by New South Wales that it
should be given, in the semi-government field, on which we were
proposing a standstill, the right to get for the Grain
Elevators Board, Of course that relates to wheat storage and
is therefore of great significance. We at once indicated that
we would support that. So that was added to the semi-government
programme that we had indicated.
There was another matter discussed in the Premiers'
Conference that is perhaps worth a little explanation and that is
this business of off-shore oil and gas. This is becoming an
interesting topic because of the discovery of gas cff the
Victorian coast and various enterprises have been seeking for and
obtaining permits to search in these areas and the question, of
course, inevitably has arisen between the 6ommonwealth and the
States as to who has the jurisdiction. The States say that
within the territorial limits which, being old-fashioned, we
can call within the three-mile limit they have the sole jurisdiction.
We dontt agree with that as a matter of law but we
on the other hand assert that outside territorial limis and on
the continental shelf which has a total area about twenty times
the size of the terriiorial waters, the jurisdiction belongs to
the Commonwealth. Now obviously you couldn't go on forever having a
wrangle about Constitutional power because this becomes a rather
important matter, People want to get on with the job and they
want to know where they stand. So our proposal was that the
Commonwealth and the States should agree to set up what I will
call a joint operation on this matter, the actual administrative
work being done in the States Mines Departments, under which we
wouldn't argue about Constitutional power, but we would each
reserve our Constitutional rights but we would agree that there
should be a commnon administration, whether it was inside
territorial waters or further out on the Continental shelf.
The proposal that we had put before at Ministers' meetings was
that under these circumstances if these became productive, if
production was achieved, royalties should be shared fifty-fifty
by the Commonwealth and the particular State off wuhose shores
the find was made. That hadn't strictly been agreed to but we
thought there was a chance it would be.
There was another question left open. It is rather
interesting, W! hen they grant permits to explore and the man gets
one of these permits, when he explores and finds, then he has
a particular area assigned to him which he can develop and that
leaves all the other portions of the area ready for re-allocation.
In the United States in particular this has become quite a
valuable right in the government because oil or gas having been
found, the remaining sections in the area are more valuable and
people pay for them* We had originally, at the Ministers'
meeting said that any proceeds of these sales should be divided
fifty-fifty. When we met the other day, I said I had got the
Cabinet to have a look at this and we were perfectly happy to
adopt the attitude that if that happened the State itself would
take the whole of the proceeds. We would make no claim to any
proceeds on this reallocation but that we should have fiftyfifty
on the royalties, production having come in. The States
will aJ~ so, I may add, get the proceeds of licence fees that are
paid. The one matter on which we come in is in the matter of
royalties. Wlell, this offer was within a few minutes accepted
by the States. This clarified the whole of the argument and
4 0 0 e a
we anticipate now that agreements can be concluded and executed
in the next few weeks. I urged the importance of time because
you can't get enterprises to spend large sums of money unless
they know they have some sort of title, some sort of protection,
and they are not going to be caught up in an argument as to
who is the landlord, as I might say. Well that is cleared up,
That was a very useful matter,
I think that is all I want to say by way of
clarification on the Premiers. There is just one other thing
I have just been reminded of. I am going away as you know and
Mr. Hasluck will be away very shortly. Senator Gorton will
be away leading one of these teams, and Mr. McEwen has agreed
to act as Minister for External Affairs during our absence.
Well now, any questions?
QUESTION Have you thought Sir whether you will hold a
Referendum later or earlier Lhan ihe six months? period?
P. M. I haven't really worked that out. We will
obviously have to present our measures In the Budget Session
which I imagine will mean a referendum in the earlier part
of next year.
Q. Can you have it as late as that, Sir? Musn't it
be not more than six months?
P. M. Yes, it must, It depends on when it goes through.
I mean, if we were able to bring it on early in the Budget
Session*,*.
Q4 I thought you put the Bill through last week.
P. M. Oh1, no, In fact I am glad you mentioned that
because it ought to be made clear that we have not yet
drafted the amendment. There have been one or two points
raised that we are considering, particularly on the aboriginal
side. When we settle those matters and we present a bill,
or bills whatever it may be, then of course the whole matter
will be debated in the House, and we will have an eye on the
timetable, because there is a limit within which you can put
them, and we will have to observe that. But that will be to
a large extent controlled by when we can bring it in and how
long the Parliamentary debate can last.
Q. It doesn't look like this year then, Sir?
P. M. Well, look, don't hold me to it. I would have
thought probably not. But it will certainly not be later than
the earlier part of next year. It might be this year.
I don't know,
Q0 Sir Robert, can you give us an outline of the
scope of the talks you propose having in Washington and
London?
P. M. I don't think I can. My experience of talks with
the Heads of Government and so on is that you start off by
saying, " This is what I am going to say." You end up by not
saying it. You have to approach these talks in a rather more
flexible manner than that. It is quite clear that in the
United States I will have some talks about the financial
position vis-a-vis Australia, the new rule. There may be one
or two aspects of commodities that I may have to have some
talks about. I am not clear yet, but I will be, and I have no
*# eee.
P. M. doubt that the position in South-East Asia will also be very
( Contd.) closely discussed. But you can never be dogmatic in advance
about those things. The main thing is to go in knowing quite
clearly in your own mind all the things that you would like
to achieve if you could. Man proposes but Presidents
dispose
Q0 You expressed some sympathy the other day, Sir, at
closer ties with New Zealand. Do you intend raising that
with Mr. Holyoake?
P. M. Oh, I don't know. That will no doubt crop up in
London. But we have certain matters under examinationrow
about exchanges of Members of Parliament and so on and I
think it unlikely that I will be discussing the question of
some trade arrangement sometimes falsely called a free
trade area or something of the kind because that is a matter
which is under most competent handling on behalf of the
Government by the Minister for Trade. If I thought that
had to be discussed in London I would have wanted to take
him there. I am not anticipating that in London we will have
any substantial trade discussions at all.
Q. In his letter to you, the President invited you
to raise at any time any specific American investment measures
that were hurting Australia. Do you have any specific cases
in mind to raise with him?
I don't think so. I may tell you that I have been
armed with a brief. It is here on the table and I will read
it before I leave.
Q. In London, Sir Robert, do you intend to see Mr.
Callaghan and Mr. Brown as well as the Prime Minister?
P. M. W4ell, it is the usual thing. I would expect to.
Qo Mr. Holt has indicated that he feels perhaps the
English situation, as far as the economy goes, is more
important to Australia's immediate future than the American
capital curb position.
P. M. look, it is very hard to say much about that because
I think I saw that there was some modification announced only
in the last twenty-four hours. I'll catch up with those in
London. I always do see the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
whoever he may be, and Mr. Brown occupies a new and rather
powerful position on the economic side. There is no doubt
I will be seeing him. In fact I will be very surprised if
both of them dontt participate on oacasions in the Prime
Ministers! Conference meetings. Quite the usual thing.
Q. Have you got a short list to take to The Queen on
another matter, Sir?
P. M. No. And if I had, I wouldn't announce it. Look,
I'm gald you riased this matter. There is a great misconception
about this business. Some chuckle-headed fellow in
some English paper announced that we had been hawking this
job around. I said something about this in the House. This
is utter drivel. Even " The London Times" has got some
nonsense that I have just been reading somewhere. This is
not how it happens. I am a bit of a stickler on this
business. I don't approach anybody until I have had a talk
to The Queen. The Queen's position has to be respected in
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this matter. The Governor-General is her personal representative
in this country, among other things, and I have in the
past alw~ ays had a talk with her. We have discussed names.
We have discussed qualifications. We have had an intimate
talk about these matters, and in the long run I get to an
agreement on this matter and it is then only that I say,
" Well, now, I have Your Majesty's approval to approach Mr. X.
or whoever it may be" l and that is the first time that anybody
is ever approached at all. I have stuck to that rule this
time, You can take it quite positively nobody has had the
faintest approach made to him. I would regard that as a gross
discourtesy.
Q. Has the Cabinet any collective view on the question
of whether it should be an Australian or a non-Australian,
Sir?
POM& I think if the Cabinet has a view on anything, it
will say so,
Qo Well, may I ask you. Would you say so on behalf
P. M. INo, I am not prepared to discuss that, Nor indeed
are you to assume that I have some prejudice on that matter,
because I haven't. I have never adopted the attitude that
an Australian is excluded. I think we have produced as
good a percentage of people of consequence in this country as
any other country that I know, so that that question of
prejudice is to be put on one side. I am only prejudiced
against one thing and that is against me being Governor-
General. ( Laughter)
Q. Sir Robert~ will you be having any discussions in
London about a possible visit by the Queen Mother next year?
The South Australian Government have extended an invitation
to her.
P. M. Look, that matter will be dealt with at the
appropriate time. You ask the Lord ivisyor of Adelaide that one,
Q, It has been announced.
P. M. Oh, 7 has it? Oh, well that's fine. Usually these
matters are announced from the Palace. Anyhow I am not
announcing anything. Anid after all if an invitation does
go, it goes from me. It doesn't go from anybody else. I
would remind you of that. I am announcing nothing.
Q. Have you any engagements in Europe, Sir, or are
your calls entirely in America and Britain?
P. M. No, I will be in America for a few days Washington,
New York for a couple of days. I aim at arriving in London
about four days before the Conference begins in order to have
the necessary preliminary talks and work and I think I will
have to remain in London for a few days three or four days
perhaps after the Conference ends, but I will then come home.
Q41 That will bring you here early in July, won't it?
P. M. Yes I think somewhere about the 9th I'm not sure
what it is, Mu I have to be back in time to have these
conferences that we have with the people in the industrial
and trades union field and so on, and then we go on into
our Budget discussions which I think will probably begin
about the middle of July, so I can't be back much after the
8th or 9th. / 7
Q Sir, there is a vacancy in Cabinet at the moment.
Can you say if this is to be filled in the near future?
I expect it will be filled shortly after my retur'n.
I noticed a fantastic story about this. Poor John McEvwer
and I are always having a brawl about something, I gather,
and we are having one about the Cabinet vacancy. Now this
is just utter nonsense. When Harrie Wade died, the vacancy
was filled by a Country Party Minister because the Country
Party has its proportion in the Cabinet itself, and John
McEwen and I had a talk about it at that time and I said,
" Well, we needn't worry because the vacancy will be filled
by the promotion of a Country Party Minister.~ There is no
argument about that, otherwise you would be down to two in
the Cabinet." t There has never been any argument about that
at all. Then, both being of Scots derivation, we decided
that we wouldn't rush into deciding who the one to be
promoted should be because they are all fairly new. ' 4e
would like to have a look-see, and we are having a look-see.
Wie were reminding each other of it the other night, There
is no argument about it. It will be a Country Party Minister.
That's never been in doubt and McEwen and I hope we will have
our judgment matured sufficiently by a little time after my
return to come to a conclusion about it. It won't at any
stage give rise to any differences of opinion,
Q* Sir, is there any difference betueen you as to which
Country Party Minister it should be?
P. M. We haven't discussed that yet, I think I told you.
We said we would wait so we could form our own opinion. I am
not aware of any difference for the very good reason that we
haventt discussed it, All we have done is to agree I
confirmed it the other night having read a piece of nonsense
in some paper that we would have to come to a conclusion
on this before very long. I don't expect there will be any
argument about it at all. I know the field but I don't know
who the choice will be and I venture to think neither does
he yet,
Q. On the subject of arguments, Sir, Mr, McEwen has
announced that he and Mr. Wheeler are deadlocked on the question
of the secondary industry section in trade. Do you propose
to break that deadlock?
P. M. The position is that the Public Service Board has the
authority to deal with promotions of this kind and we have
decided that the Public Service Board's authority must be
preserved. If a Cabinet began to give orders to the Public
Service Board contrary to its own judgment on a matter of
internal administration like that then you could say goodbye
to the independence of the Civil Lervice and introduce
political control, and the Cabinet believed that that is
wrong, and therefore this is a matter, like all matters of
this kind which has to be worked out between the Trade Department
people and the Public Service Board. Every Department
does this from time to time. At present they are not in a
state of agreement but I hope they will be in due course because
I think it is important that it should go ahead.
Q. Sir, can you say anything about the replies from the
companies that you wrote to about American investment in
Australia? 09s a. / 8
-8-
P. M. No, except to say that we had replies from I think
practically all of them and that they have without exception
been very helpful and I have written to each of them and
acknowledged that and the result of all this is under analysis
in the Treasury.
Q. The Treasury White Paper mentioned the replies last
week, Sir.
P. 14, Yes, well I don't propose, of course, nor would you
ask me to say what these replies were. These replies are
all made to us confidentially. We are asking about the
particular activities of particular companies and what their
plans are and all this, when I wrote I made it quite clear,
would be regarded as confidential as far as they are
concerned. We may draw certain general conclusions but it
would never do to indicate the business of some particular
company.
Q* Can you say anything about the general conclusions
to be drawn, Sir?
P. 14. No, I can't. As I said, these matters are being
analysed by the Treasury.
QO Is there any way of ensuring that legislation gets
more orderly and les8 hurried consideration than it had at the
end of the last Parliamentary Session, Sir?
P. M. I don't think there was anything unique about the
end of the last Parliamentary Session. I have been in
Parliament for thirty-six years or something and it has always
been the same.
Q9 Isn't it about time it was changed, Sir?
P. M. Well, I said that thirty-six years ago. You know,
you musn't underestimate the difficulties of this business.
Our position in this place is really quite peculiar because
we have these two Sassions in a year. I remember in the old
days in Victoria the Sessions began in July. You had the
whole of the six months to work out legislative proposals and
for the draftsmen to do their work. We are rather short of
dgroaodf tsdmreanft. s meDnr, a ftansdm enb eacraeu sen oto f toth eb e fapcict kethd ato fyfo ue vhearvye btuhseh,
Autumn Session and then the Budget Session, we live 1r ~ je
most constant pressure of Cabinet meetings and Cabiidtt e4ings.
I was asking the other day for a few facts on that. It might
amuse you to know that in this Parliamentary Session just
ended,, taking that period from 16th February well, I start
on 16h February. Parliament opened a little after that;
we have had 25 Cabinet meetings we have had Cabinet meetings
on 25 days, and in the course of those days, we have had 4+ Q
sessions of Cabinet because we frequently meet at night when
the House is sitting. The General Administrative Committee
which is the other section of the Cabinet met about eight
times, the Foreign Affairs and Defence Committee met approximately
half a dozen times, the Legislative Committee about a
dozen times, and other Committees about fifteen times, I
think it almost a record. Now all this involves constant
pressure, and I quite agree with you, if we were living in a
perfect world, we would hold up the meeting of Parliament
until we had had all these meetings and discussed all these
things and got a lot of precise instructions to the draftsmen.
0006* 0400/
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P. M. I think there would be a great deal of resentment if we held
( Contd.) up the sitting of Parliament while all that went on, though
no doubt it would contribute very powerfully to avoiding
a last-moment rush. But you know, we musn't pretend to be
too superior about these things. dhen you were a student,
I bet you did more work in the last month of the year than
you did in the whole of the previous eleven put together.
Otherwise you were a remarkable exception.
Q. Sir Robert, Mr. Brand has said that he has received
a letter from you on the standard gauge rail project,
P. M. Yes..
Q. i wonder whether in those circumstances you would
be prepared to releas4 the text of the letter.
POM. No, no, I am not.
Q. Alternatively, would you say something about the
matters that are giving the Commonwealth some concern?
P. M. No, I won't. I have sent a long and detailed letter
to the Premier of Wjest Australia. I am not in the habit of
publishing my letters to Premiers, particularly when they are
on complex matters. I will get an answer in due course.
W~ hether the matter will then be publishable or not, I don't
know, but not now.
Q. Sir Robert, you will have read last week that the
Federal A. L. P. executives severely censured Senator Kennelly
and Mr. Hawke for having put forward a proposal for making
a deal with the D. L. P. Have you any comments to make?
Pemel No, I don't like interfering in the neighbours'
quarrel. Good luck to them whoever they are,
Q. Sir, the Australian Government's note to the Soviet
Union said the sending of an Australian battalion to South
Vietnam was in no way contrary to international law. it
didn't mention the SEATO treaty. Is there any reason for
that?
P. M. No. The SEATO treaty is part of our international
law.
Q. Sir, can you give any estimate on when the Government
might be considering architect-s' submissions for the new
Parliament building?
P. M. Oh dear no. Oh, now, come. Didn't you know that
I am proposing to set up a committee not to discuss the
plan of the building but to discover what ought to be in
it, what the requirements are, including the requirements of
the Press, including the requirements of Private Members,
including the requirements of Ministers, including the
requirements of the staff, the Library all the things.
You nan't start talking about architects or designs until
you have determined what it is that is to be in the new
building.
Q. When do you think that will be determined? * 000060*/ 10
10
P. M. ' dell you are asking me about the speed with which
a committee will act. 4e won't debate the setting up of the
committee until we resume. I would think that it might
very well take the better part of a year because it is a
very complex matter. There are a lot of unsatisfactory
things about a building like this, as you know and as I
know. When we get to the stage of building a new Parliament
House we will need to look to the future a bit, we will need
to anticipate that there will be some expansion in due'course,
as there must be in the numbers in Parliament as the
population goes up, and there are a few things that have to
be made quite clear. There ought to be some section, for
exarple, in a new Parliment House which is the executive
wing which is controlled by the Cabinet itself so that you
don't have to go to the Speaker and say, " Please may I have
a room, I am appointing a Minister." That ought to be
a separate matter. But it must have, of course, easy and
immediate access to the House. The accommodation for Private
Members is really quite inadequate and I don't venture to
speak for you but I would think that you have found that
the Press accommodation in this building, with its p lacing
and all that kind of thing, most unsatisfactory. All these
things must be worked out properly so that when the Committee
reports and its report is adopted that this is what the new
building should contain, then you get to the stage of
discussing how you are going to go about it, whether you are
going to have a competition, an architectural competition
with sails on the roof ( Laughter) or, you So the
architects can remain a little easy on this aspect for a little
time to come.
QQ Have you noticed where Mr. Calwell and Mr. Wentworth
seem to have joined forces in being angry over what they call
the predetermination of the site?
P. M. I am aware of that but I still believe that a great
majority of the people on both sides of the House prefer the
site which was announced seven years ago. I think so. It
wouldn't be uncommon to find individuals disagreeing, naming
no names.
Q6 Do you think you will get the cost within the Opera
House budget?
P.. e -Jell, by Jove, I hope for less than that, yes. But
you never I haven't a clue.
Q. Sir Robert, could I ask you something about Jashington.
When you go there, it has been suggested that perhaps
Australia's economic intelligence out of Washington has not
been what it might have been and perhaps we were warned a
little too late of the American proposals in regard to the
capital curbs and also both Mr. McEwen and Mr. Holt referred
to the work of the American labbies in lead and zinc and sugar
and wool. Will you be looking at this aspect of Australia's
operations in Washington with the idea of enlivening it?
P. M. If there is any defect in that field, I will no doubt
discover it. I don't know. I have no predetermination on
that matter. It may be, of course, that the President, like
one or two other political leaders that I know of, makes hiown
announcements Znd doesntt give notice of them a fortnight
ahead. That's not uncommon.
Sir Robert, do you plan to lead the Government at the
next election?
P. M. I dc. n't know. I don't know anything about my future.
I have got to the stage where I do not ask to see the distant
scene one step enough for me and the next step unfortunately
is into the aeroplane to go on another of these journeys.