Subjects: casinos, wine industry,
living wage case, tax reform, economy, budget surplus, tobacco industry.
E&OE...................
CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister, welcome to town.
PRIME
MINISTER:
Very good to be here again Jeremy.
CORDEAUX:
It is good to see you. I saw Rod Kemp
last night on television attempting, I really didn't understand
what he was saying about this casino GST break. If he was
trying to make the point I couldn't understand it. Maybe we'll
deal with that first. People sort of see it as being very
strange that you've been besieged with all sorts of charitable organisations.
People want food, the necessities of life made GST free. Yet
you pick up the paper and you find that the casinos, or the high
rollers of the casinos are going to get a break. Help me to
understand that.
PRIME
MINISTER:
Well they're not getting a break, but before I explain it can
I just point out that we have given a lot of concessions to charities.
Only last week we announced that raffles and bingos would be completely
free of the GST. We made another major concessions as a result
of representations from the welfare sector concerning opportunity
shops. That was done several months ago. We have in
fact made a lot of concessions already in response to representations
that have been put to us by the charitable sector. They don't
get much publicity. It's much easier to say: shock horror
Crown Casino, and because it's guaranteed a big headline because
of some of the personalities involved in the casino. But we
are not giving them any concession. Under the GST you don't
tax the winnings of the gambler. You don't tax the punter.
You tax the operator and you tax the operator on his margin, his
net profit if you like. And his net profit is what he gets
out of the gambling transaction. And if he gives a rebate
as part of attracting his custom that rebate reduces his profit.
Therefore you pay the GST on the profit. And that was always
going to be the case. That was the announced policy.
It was never any different and the legislation as originally introduced
didn't give effect to that. Therefore the casino association
as I understand it, went to the Treasury and made a representation
to the Treasury. The Treasury took the view that it was a
reasonable change. It brought the legislation in line with
the original policy. It does not involve making casinos free
of GST. Casinos will pay the GST. They will pay the
GST on their margin, on their net operating profit if you want to
put it that way. But high rollers like any other punter don't
bear the GST. That's how the system works. And for people.I
mean it's very easy because it's Crown Casino, and because of the
personalities involved, Mr Walker and others, people who run around
and say this is a shock horror fix. It's not a fix. There's
no reason why you shouldn't bring legislation into line with the
policy and I just say again that we have made a lot of changes,
the raffles and bingos is the latest example, a lot of changes to
meet the legitimate concerns and objections of the welfare sector.
And we are continuing to be open to fine-tuning of the package.
And this thing that was announced on the casinos doesn't involve
making any revenue concession that wasn't already allowed for.
CORDEAUX:
Yes, well that explains it better than I think
Mr Kemp tried last night.
PRIME
MINISTER:
It's a very.look I know because it's Crown Casino, and I speak
as somebody who doesn't like gambling very much as people know.
I think there's too much gambling in our country. But if you
lay down a policy and the legislation doesn't meet that policy,
and anybody's entitled to come along and say: look this is what
you said. Your legislation doesn't match it. Will you
please change the legislation. Now that's fair enough and
we've done that in a lot of areas in relation to charities and I
say again, it's not fair of people like Harry Herbert and others
to run around and say we don't listen to the welfare sector.
We listened in relation to opportunity shops, we listened in relation
to raffles and bingos, we've listened in relation to a lot of things.
But some of the requests that are being made of us are not reasonable
and we can't accede to them. But I'm not going to be sort of knocked
off course through the emotional use of a controversial name like
Crown Casino.
CORDEAUX:
It was just that the opponents, the critics
of tax reform seem to me to be getting one hell of a free kick yesterday.
PRIME
MINISTER:
Well it's easy when you've got an emotional thing like that,
but can I say to your listeners we have not exempted casinos from
the GST. They pay the GST on their net operating margin as
they should, as they were always intended to. That was the arrangement
and high rollers like any other punter don't pay tax on their winnings.
I mean you don't want a GST that taxes the punter. You want
a GST that taxes the deal of the operator.
CORDEAUX:
The thing that's interesting South Australians today is the
wine industry. I guess everyone is going to try and screw
for his sector, or his industry a better deal. What can you
tell us that might be of relief for..?
PRIME
MINISTER:
Well I hope, as I have an opportunity, my colleagues
have a further opportunity to explain the details of what we've
done, that we're treating the wine industry very fairly. What
we've sought to do is produce a result that is fair in relation
to all beverage sectors. Now we spent an enormous amount of
time listening to the wine industry before we brought the package
down as to what kind of tax regime that should accompany the GST.
There were some producers who wanted one method, there were other
producers, the majority, and certainly the majority that live in
South Australia who wanted a different method and we adopted the
latter method, not without some criticism from some small operators
and a lot of operators in States like Western Australia. Now
I saw some people yesterday and will continue to examine what they're
putting to us and I hope that we can persuade them that what we've
done is fair.
CORDEAUX:
But with regard to tax reform I saw one paper this morning really
made a very good point, The
Daily Telegraph in Sydney. They say in their editorial
"if ever there was an argument for tax reform it is the unfortunate
effect that the current tax structure had on the $12 wage increase
granted yesterday by the Australian Industrial Relations Commission.
The net result being that the average person would get $1.50, $1.50
from the increase.
PRIME
MINISTER:
Well I don't know whether that $1.50 is exactly right, but the
line of argument is right. The $10 or $12 is reduced by the
tax you pay, but it can also be reduced if
you're getting a special family allowance
supplement, and you go into a higher income bracket you can lose
some of that. Now one of the neglected elements of our tax
plan is that we are increasing very significantly the cut off points
for those extra family allowances so that you can earn more income
without losing the family allowance supplement. The other
benefit of tax reform is that 80% of wage and salary earners in
Australia, 80% will be on a top marginal rate of 30 cents in the
dollar. Now many of the people that were the subject of that
projection by the Sydney Daily Telegraph editorial are paying 34
cents at the margin. Some people of course on higher incomes
are paying 40 cents in the dollar, and of course at the top level
47. Now the really big tax reform is that 80%, 80% of Australian
taxpayers will be on a top rate of 30 cents in the dollar.
Now you can't have that unless you have the whole package.
And that is an overwhelming argument as the Telegraph editorial
says for taxation reform. I mean we've got to keep coming
back to the main game. The main game is whether we're going
to have a personal tax system that provides incentive, or we're
going to have an efficient business tax GST system that helps our
exporters and helps our businesses and makes us more competitive.
Now that is what is really at stake. You can have a lot of
emotional arguments about other issues but in the end are we going
to have a modern competitive tax system or are we going, you know,
rumble along with the present arrangement. And that is what
the Senate has got to decide. And I mean that's what we took
to the people.
CORDEAUX:
Well you had the Premiers signing off..
PRIME
MINISTER:
Every last one of them. Even the Labor Premiers. They
said: oh you realise Prime Minister we don't agree with this, where
do we sign.
CORDEAUX:
And the Senate is a States' house, all the States
agreeing.
PRIME
MINISTER:
It was meant originally to be a States
house. But you had Peter Beattie and Bob Carr as enthusiastic
about this as John Olsen and Jeff Kennett. And they all lined
up to sign. Now you don't often get peace and harmony at a
Premiers' Conference. It was almost a political love-in they
were so keen to have it. And so they should be because over
time the States will be a lot better off and they'll have more money
for government schools, and for hospitals and for police.
More money than they get under the present system.
CORDEAUX:
Have you ever been as passionate about anything as you are about
this?
PRIME
MINISTER:
No I don't think I have. Except perhaps,
since I've been Prime Minister, I was even more passionate about
gun control.
CORDEAUX:
Yes. Would that passion if Senator Harradine
is intent upon frustrating you. I mean would that take you
back to the people.
PRIME
MINISTER:
Jeremy I hope reason prevails. I'm never afraid to face the
people, but I've not long had an election and I don't think the
Australian public wants another election. Most of the Australian
public thinks that they decided this issue in October last year.
Even those that voted against me believe that the issue was decided
and they would like the Senate to get on with it and pass it and
get onto something else.
CORDEAUX:
Well maybe we could run the whole thing a lot more
cheaply if we just let Senator Harradine run the whole country.
PRIME
MINISTER:
Well Senator Harradine shouldn't incidentally
cop all the blame. If the Democrats and the Labor Party accepted
the will of the people then Senator Harradine would be irrelevant.
It is their obstinancy as much as anything that is making him the
central player.
CORDEAUX:
A couple of other headlines that would please
you I guess, the nation's GDP tipped to top the world's best which
I think is impressive. Inflation is down. The economy
looks like it is..
PRIME
MINISTER:
The economy is running very well.
CORDEAUX:
What sort of a surplus do you think we're going to have?
PRIME
MINISTER:
Well we'll have a surplus. I can't
tell you.I have a rough idea of what it is so therefore I don't
think I should speculate. But we will have a surplus.
CORDEAUX:
But they are tipping that you're going to have
a lot more money than you expected to have.
PRIME
MINISTER:
Well people always say that.
CORDEAUX:
Now if you do, you might be able to be a bit more
generous with the compensation package for..
PRIME
MINISTER:
I think people should wait and see the figures.
Look Jeremy, it's a difficult time. We're only a few weeks
out. I know what the figures are. I've got to be careful
how I respond to questions like that and you're perfectly entitled
to try and get me to be careless.
CORDEAUX:
Okay. Well there are first signs also
that your policy on getting more people into health insurance, or
keeping..
PRIME
MINISTER:
Yes the signs on that are good. According,
this is a survey not by the government but by the health insurance
industry, they say at least 100,000. And the other good news
that I have today is that it's the first anniversary of the new
improved privatised employment network, the Job Network, and I can
report that it has been 50% more successful than the old Commonwealth
Employment Service in finding work for people wanting a job.
50% more successful. Now this was ridiculed and abused and
subject to all sorts of criticism.
CORDEAUX:
But it deserved a bit of criticism in the early days.
PRIME
MINISTER:
Well okay, but something.this was a world first.
We were the first country in the world to try the comprehensive
privatisation of the labour exchange system of a country.
We were the first nation on Earth to try this, and of course it
was going to have some teething troubles. I used those very
words myself a year ago and it did. But we're now through
that stage and Tony Abbott, who deserves enormous credit for the
job that he's done in relation to this since last October, he'll
be issuing a report card on the job network at midday today.
But it has been a great success and it's 50% more successful in
finding work than the CES.
CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister if I could get you to put the
headphones on. Erwin from Mitchell Park, hi.
CALLER:
Good morning. Good morning Mr Prime Minister.
PRIME
MINISTER:
Good morning Erwin.
CALLER:
I'm on a disability pension and the thing
is, if you've got one guy in the unit like I am in a housing trust,
on a disability pension, and the guy next door's just on an ordinary
single pension, every time he gets a rise it's okay because he's
got no medical things to pay for, nothing like that. I have
to pay for massages and physio all out of my pension and the pension
doesn't seem to go quite far enough.
PRIME
MINISTER:
Your general medical expenses are covered are
they?
CALLER:
No.
PRIME
MINISTER:
You have to pay for all of your medical expenses?
You have Medicare.
CALLER:
[inaudible] public hospital and you can't always
get there. You can't get massages there, see. And I
go there for the swimming pool but if I don't have massages they
reckon, because I'm not in a wheelchair, but if I don't have massages
they reckon I'll be in a wheelchair within ten years, instead of
40 years or 20 years.
PRIME
MINISTER:
Is your disability the result of an accident,
sir?
CALLER:
I've got a crook back, and I've got a nerve
growing in the backbone.
PRIME
MINISTER:
I see.
CALLER:
I would have done it when I was very young, [inaudible] cart
milk around. And I did a lot of lifting, then I went into
baker and there's a lot of flour. But I'm only 49 and I'm
on a disability pension. I have no super, no nothing to fall
back on.
PRIME
MINISTER:
Would you like to sent to me care of the station,
no send it to me in Parliament House in Canberra, all of the details
of your expenses and everything and the disadvantage you think you
suffer in relation to an ordinary pension and I'll check all the
facts out. And I'm not saying I can change it but I will at
least examine it and check out the facts.
CORDEAUX:
How are you Ken.
CALLER:
Yes good morning.
PRIME
MINISTER:
Good morning Ken.
CALLER:
Yes, good morning, Prime Minister, thank you
very much indeed for giving the opportunity for people to speak
to you on Jeremy's program. Prime Minister, I was quite appalled
a couple of weeks ago when you allowed 2000 Yugoslavs to remain
in this country on extended visas because of the problem in Serbia
at the present moment.
PRIME
MINISTER:
I thought it was 200.
CALLER:
Oh, was it? Well, I'm sorry there.
PRIME
MINISTER:
I thought it was 200; it was a decision taken
by the Immigration Minister. My recollection, are you talking
about people who were here at the time the conflict broke out or
the 200? I think, I'm sorry, on reflection, I think you're
talking about some people here who were, who were sort of, who were
here at the time the conflict broke out.
CALLER:
Yes.
PRIME
MINISTER: