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CORDEAUX:
Good morning, sir.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning, Jeremy, good to be with you again.
CORDEAUX:
Good to talk with you. I can't believe that all of these talks
with the Democrats have gone on and I see this morning that they're
now prepared to negotiate. What have they been doing up until now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we've had a lot of talks and people are still talking.
And you'll excuse me, given that, for not wanting to go into
a lot of detail. Obviously the Democrats have some ideas on issues
in this package which are different from ours. And when you're
in a discussion or a negotiation of something like this you have to
try and see what common ground you can reach and have a look at that
against your own taxation principles. Now, it's difficult for
me to really say any more than that, Jeremy. We want tax reform. We
believe the country needs it.
CORDEAUX:
You've got a mandate for it.
PRIME MINISTER:
We got a mandate and we can't at the moment get it through the
Parliament because we had hoped that it might have been possible to
enlist the support of Senator Harradine and that did not prove possible.
We are now and have been for some days in discussions with the Australian
Democrats. Now, I respect the fact that on a number of issues they
are coming from a different point of view but in other areas we have
some common ground. And it's really a question in a process like
that of being patient and trying to see what common ground you can
reach and then asking yourself, well is that the sort of common ground
that is sufficiently consistent with our starting point to still be
able to say, well we have a plan, we have a package that we're
comfortable with. And I guess they're in the same situation.
Now, that happens in these positions and clearly our preference would
have been for the Parliament, the Senators, all of them, the Labor
and Democrat and so forth, to have said, well, even if we don't
like it, the public voted for it and we'll let it go through.
That would have been the sensible thing for the Labor Party to have
done but that hasn't happened and we're talking now. I can't
really say any more than that. I remain very committed to tax reform.
And you know how important a number of elements of the package are
to me the reform of Commonwealth-State financial relations
and personal income tax cuts for middle Australia, I think that's
very important, and reforming the indirect tax system in a big way,
and a whole lot of things. And making sure that the bush is looked
after. These are goals. I understand, of course, that consistent with
some of that the Democrats also have goals.
Now, I may not agree with their policies, they don't agree with
mine, but you have to be pragmatic as well as idealistic and explore
the maximum extent to which you can find common ground and then examine
how that stacks up against your going in position. And they will be
doing and are doing the same thing. Now, that's the nature of
a negotiation. I have to say that I've found the negotiations
to be cordial and forthright. I find her a person who is good to deal
with. Her views on a lot of things are different from mine. I accept
and respect that. Clearly on a number of things she comes from a very
different position but I have found her very direct and candid in
the discussions and that's always useful. I don't find any
games being played in the discussions. It's a question of saying,
well, I want this and I'm not prepared to agree to that. Well,
you then move on and talk about something else. So, it's a long
process.
CORDEAUX:
Yes, it seems to me that they're trying to get you to bargain
away Australia's future.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Jeremy, we took a package to the last election that we thought
was fair and balanced and progressive and very good for Australia.
And we obviously are not going to agree to something that destroys
the basic integrity of that package.
CORDEAUX:
So you are prepared to, if they want too much, walk away from that
tax?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh look, in any of these negotiations if you get to a point where
one side wants you to go a bridge too far then the negotiations stop.
Now, we are still talking. It is, has been, and it remains a very
complicated issue. I am a patient man but nobody's patience is
every inexhaustible but, as I say, we're still talking and we
continue to talk. And I've always been fairly cautious in the
views I've expressed about the possibility of getting support.
You may remember in relation to Senator Harradine. I only ever said
I was hopeful. I was never over-confident. And I just think you keep
trying and you keep talking and we are certainly doing that. And,
as I say, I've found them very constructive discussions and I
have found her a forthright, direct person with whom to deal and that's
very valuable.
CORDEAUX:
Some are saying that you could do a handshake deal on it today, do
you think that's possible?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh look, Jeremy, I think all I can say is that talks go on and I hate
this I'll take that back, you have a perfect right to
ask that question but I would rather say no more than that.
CORDEAUX:
Another headline I saw this morning was, I want more, says Harradine.'
Senator's demand for, what was is it, a billion dollars for the
extra bit of Telstra for sale?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, I saw that. I didn't listen to all the details of his press
conference but Brian Harradine, who along with Mal Colston, continues
to hold the balance of power in the Senate until the 30th
of June.
CORDEAUX:
But isn't that extortion?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, he wouldn't see it that way. All of these things, in the
end, involve value judgements. We would like to privatise the whole
of Telstra. We took it to the people at the last election which, incidentally,
we won and we obviously are if it has to be, we will privatise
the rest of Telstra in two bites. Our policy is, sell another 16 per
cent, then have a public inquiry as to whether all of the community
service obligations, particularly for the bush, are being delivered
and then, if you've done that sufficiently, then you go ahead
and sell the rest. Now, at the moment it looks very hard to see where
we're going to get the extra votes for selling the whole lot.
There's a possibility that we could get support to sell another
16 per cent. And what Senator Harradine, as I understand it, is saying,
well, I don't really like this but I might go along with
it if I'm satisfied that out of the proceeds of the sale of Telstra
there are benefits provided to the community, particularly the community
I represent.'
CORDEAUX:
Yes, it just seems that the average Australian, I'm sure, it
would get up his nose or her nose to sort of see the way in which
Parliament seems to be run by a handful of people. It doesn't
seem like it's democrat and it must be enormously frustrating
for you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Jeremy, I would much have preferred to have had a majority in both
Houses of Parliament from the time I was elected Prime Minister but
I haven't and I've had to live with this situation.
CORDEAUX:
You've got to work with that.
PRIME MINISTER:
And you do have to work with it and the community expects you to try
and make it work. They don't expect you to sell-out on what you
really believe in and I won't be doing that on anything. But
they do expect you to try hard and see if you can reach in relation
to a number of things. You take industrial relations legislation.
We didn't get everything in '96 that we wanted but, gee,
the industrial relations scene in Australia now dramatically different
and better from what it was three years ago. So we got quite a lot.
We got the great bulk of what we wanted. Now, that is the approach
that I believe the community expects you to try and achieve. On some
issues you can achieve it. On other issues you can't. But I don't
see, under the present arrangement, any prospect that the current
situation in the Senate is going to dramatically alter. I think it
very difficult to see the Coalition, no matter how well it does in
general elections, having a majority in its own right in the Senate
under current arrangements. And this is partly a consequence of a
decision that was taken way back in 1984 by the Labor Party with the
support then of the National Party to increase the size of the Parliament
which made it necessary to elect 12 Senators from each State and half
of them retire every three years. And it's very hard for there to
be other than a three/three division on each occasion between, sort
of, the broad left hand side of politics and the broad right hand
side of politics.
CORDEAUX:
Anything you can do to reform the Senate?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, well look, those things are possible but they're not on my agenda
at present.
CORDEAUX:
Yes, it just seems so strange that a States' house....
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that was the original idea of it but we have a very rigid Constitution.
Now, the federal compact remember was about the smaller States agreeing
to enter the federation in return for guarantees they'd not be overwhelmed
by the population for preponderance in Sydney and Melbourne. So you
produced a single member House....single member constituencies
in the House of Reps on the basis of population and then a strict
division between the States. Now, that has been the federal compact
from the beginning. Where it's gone wrong is that the Senators have,
sort of, pushed aside the notion of a States' house. Now, anyway,
all I can tell you is, I mean, at the moment I am absorbed with taxation
discussions and so forth.
CORDEAUX:
I know. Let's go back to that. They are saying that what you are prepared
to offer, a GST free food, people earning more than $50,000 a year
to lose....
PRIME MINISTER:
I think you are reading from the front page of The Australian.
CORDEAUX:
I am, yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't want to, sort of, confirm or deny any of those stories.
Jeremy, I don't think I can and I don't wish to be impolite but it's
very difficult when you are continuing to talk to people, it's very
difficult to then, sort of, publicly respond to questions about those
discussions without the other side saying, well, you know, what's
he doing this for.
CORDEAUX:
All right.
PRIME MINISTER:
I do have to preserve the good faith of the discussions that have
been proceeding with the Democrats.
CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister, out of left field, maybe it's right field, I don't
know. I heard this morning that there is just a possibility that the
compromise could be that you would offer a five per cent GST on absolutely
everything and that the sums would more or less work out. Can you
give me any indication whether that has crossed your mind?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh look, a lot of things have crossed my mind over the last couple
of years on this but look, I can't, I don't want to comment on that
either I am sorry.
CORDEAUX:
Okay. The...an interesting thing I saw the other day, I think,
in the Financial Review about some sort of a loophole in the
superannuation scheme looking like leading the coffers of something
like a billion dollars. The Taxation Commissioner coming out and saying
that he was going to close all of this down retrospectively, how would
you react or the Government react to that retrospective action?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you can't retrospectively change the law without parliamentary
approval. I haven't read that story. Generally speaking we are opposed
to retrospective legislation. I have in the long distant past been
involved in some in relation to blatant tax avoidance schemes. I carried
quite a few scars from that experience back in the early 1980s but
I thought it was justified because people were rorting their fellow
citizens in the arrangements they entered into. But when you have
got something which is in the nature of a loophole then you could
have different circumstances. But quite frankly I haven't turned my
mind to that and beyond stating that principle it's hard for me to
say anymore. I'll have a look at that, I am glad you have drawn it
to my attention.
CORDEAUX:
There was a story around yesterday about a major breakthrough with
osteoporosis. What it is is a new drug that rebuilds bone density...
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes.
CORDEAUX:
...and we were talking to the Professor at a Repatriation Hospital
in Sydney, he said that he heard that I was talking to you today and
he said: you might ask the Prime Minister why it is that women are
given this drug tax free, or it comes to them on the free list, yet
men are not allowed to have it, they have to pay the full total, which
I think are quite high. The question is...
PRIME MINISTER:
I will investigate that. I didn't know that. That's the second thing
I haven't known this morning, I am sorry.
CORDEAUX:
He was just calling for a little even-handedness...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that's fair enough. I am very happy to have a look at that.
I might just say, if I can, you'll forgive the political commercial.
While we are on the subject of drugs and medical science I hope everybody
who is interested in this area knows that we have promised to double
the expenditure on health and medical research in this country as
one of the centrepieces of Peter Costello's Budget.
CORDEAUX:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
And we are very proud of the fact that we will be putting this country,
once again, very much at the forefront of medical science and research
because we really do have quite outstanding people. And you not only
have those advances of which you spoke but many of the other advances
in relation to arthritis and so forth are just terrific.
CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister, did you catch up with this business in Melbourne where
Anne Peacock has been, or somebody tried to ban Anne Peacock from
joining the Liberal Party?
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course I have read it. It is stupid. I mean, really. I mean, what
are they going on with, I mean, it is absolutely crazy. She is a first-class
person, she comes from a great Liberal family, she is married to a
great Liberal. But in her own right, which is the most important consideration,
she is an intelligent articulate person of impeccable character. I
mean, why on earth anybody would think they are serving any interests
by trying to keep her out or even delay her joining the party, I mean,
that's just, the stupidity of it absolutely amazes me.
CORDEAUX:
It sounds like a strange petty bureaucratic...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that sort of thing turns people off political movements. And
as far as I am concerned I don't want any of that nonsense in the
Liberal Party anywhere in Australia. Not just in Victoria but anywhere
in Australia. It really is absolute nonsense and I think the message
would have well and truly been received by now given the reactions...the
reaction that I have given and also I know the reaction of Jeff Kennett
and Peter Costello to senior Liberals in Victoria.
CORDEAUX:
Demonstrations, I understand, will be held across the nation today
to protest the Federal Government's censorship laws, what's your feeling
on attempts...I don't even know if it's feasible to try and effectively
censor the Internet?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think we have an obligation to try. What the community wants is
protection of young people against certain material on the Internet.
I think that is absolutely defensible. I subscribe generally to the
theory that adults should be allowed to read, hear, and see, and view
whatever they choose to, of course. But there is an argument in relation
to children and there is no reason in-principle why that shouldn't
be extended to the Internet. And I think what the Government has done
in that area is absolutely defensible and the reactions of many are
completely, how should I put it, they're over the top. They are
basically seeking a society where you don't say enough is enough
in relation to anything. Now I don't hold that view. Certainly
when you're talking about children I certainly don't. And
I just cannot understand on ordinary common sense grounds believe
that the constant bombarding of young people with certain material
doesn't have an influence on their conduct. I mean I find it
impossible to believe that people who might otherwise be socially
vulnerable aren't influenced by constant and repetitive violence
on videos and on movies. I find it impossible [inaudible] otherwise.
CORDEAUX:
The video games must be.....
PRIME MINISTER:
It must. I mean it doesn't matter to kids who've got an
otherwise supportive and stable environment in which to live. But
those that haven't, I think it does further deepen their sense
of alienation and hostility towards the community. I'm not a
psychologist, I'm just another bloke I hope who has some understanding
of human behaviour and I will never be convinced otherwise, and I
think most Australians would feel the same way. Therefore you have
an obligation, however imperfectly you might deliver on it, to achieve
something in this area. And I say to those who are protesting against
it that you don't understand the mood of middle Australia on
this. You don't understand how deeply many parents feel about
it with some justification.
CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister, just hang on for one second. Let me take one call
here. Roger from Williamstown. What would you like to say?
CALLER:
Good morning Jeremy, and Prime Minister.
CORDEAUX:
Yes Roger.
Mr Howard, two points I'd like to make briefly here. The first
one being I keep hearing of talk of a mandate for a GST. Your Liberal-National
Coalition achieved 36% of the vote. Now that means that 64% voted
against it. That hardly equates to a mandate. Secondly I hear you
talk about reformation of the Senate. Will that be reformed in the
light manner to which our voting system was vandalised behind the
public's back last July? Thank you.