24 September 1999
Subjects: Troops in East Timor, football grand finals, Davis Cup
E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………….
MILLER:
Prime Minister, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Hello, John. It’s good to be with you again.
MILLER:
Okay, Prime Minister, what’s the latest they’re telling you this morning on the situation in East Timor?
PRIME MINISTER:
No essential change from the reports overnight. It remains as I said at the beginning it would be, that is a potentially quite dangerous operation. So far it has gone well and there’s a great deal more order in Dili. The local population is beginning to gather confidence because it now sees that there are people there who are willing to provide them with protection against the militias. There is, importantly, very good co-operation between General Cosgrove and the multinational force members and the Indonesian armed forces, and that’s important. I know elements of the Indonesian forces can be criticised for their association with the militias but other elements are not guilty of that and it is important that the two military forces work together, particularly during this transitional phase. As I’ve said repeatedly, our quarrel is not with the Indonesian people. Our quarrel is with what Indonesia, by whatever combination of circumstances, has allow to happen in East Timor particularly after the people of that province voted so strongly in favour of independence. But so far the operation is going much as I expected. And I just say again, there is danger in it. And no one should pretend that it isn’t dangerous and that applies to journalists. We’ve taken great lengths to warn all of the newsagencies in Australia and elsewhere that people have to go where they are told it is safe to go and nowhere else. And, tragically, one journalist has already lost his life and that’s an appalling event. We are concerned about the safety of journalists. They’re an important part of our system and we want to provide them with protection but naturally, of course, they have to play their part and not embark upon foolhardy exercises.
MILLER:
Yes – we’ll come back to that point a little bit later – Major General Cosgrove last night said he was seeking urgent information on reports of militia massing for an offensive in West Timor. Have you been briefed on that at all?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you’ll understand that there are certain things that I get briefed on that I can’t talk about.
MILLER:
Obviously.
PRIME MINISTER:
But having said that I guess all that the General can do when he’s asked questions about those things is to respond in that fashion. Let me generically answer those sorts of questions by saying we believe that the force build-up is appropriate. We believe the force build-up is adequate. We do look forward to the injection into the forces on the ground of elements of the Filipino contribution, which is flying out of Australia today. And we also look forward to further contributions from countries like Korea and Thailand because although Australia is leading the force and providing the greatest number, it is very much a multinational force and that is how we want it and it’s very important that it be seen in that light because that’s what it is. But we get a lot of reports and sometimes it’s possible to deal with them specifically, other times it’s not. And I don’t want to get myself into a position where I comment too much on operational matters. I don’t think it’s fair to the commander on the ground. He’s the soldier. I’m the political leader. He makes decisions on the ground and I don’t want to get in his way with running commentaries of an operational kind. I don’t think it’s fair to him. I have enormous confidence in him. And any Australian who saw him on television last night would have been immensely proud of the job that he’s doing, the way in which he carefully but courteously answered all the questions. I thought he did a fantastic job and he’s repaying already the tremendous confidence that people have put in him.
MILLER:
Yes, I don’t think any Australian would expect you to say anything that could possibly cause him trouble. The General did allude last night to the possibility of further international involvement, are we in a position to say any more about that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think what the General was referring to was the build-up of the force from other parts of the world. That’s what he was alluding to. And also you appreciate that the long-term objective, after peace has been enforced, restored, established, that you will have what is called a blue helmet of United Nations force which will be there for a perhaps longer term peacekeeping operation. And although Australia will be part of that we won’t be the dominant part that we are as a multinational force.
MILLER:
All right, well obviously, though, from General Cosgrove last night, he was talking in terms of months. It’s not a quick operation. Are we in a position to cope with this on a long-term basis, just in terms of manpower and material?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we never thought it would be short. Just how long it will be I don’t think anybody knows at the moment. The Defence Minister made it plain yesterday that on the basis of going up to the maximum level of 4500 you have, under present arrangements, a capacity to provide all of that up to a period of twelve months involving, generally speaking, people serving for no longer than nine months. In other words, there’d be rotation of people not later than nine months, in some cases it could occur earlier. As to arrangements to cover any situation beyond that twelve month period then obviously we’re going to have something further to say about that in the near future.
MILLER:
All right, now strategists are telling me that it’s obvious to them that the militia are still getting substantial support from rogue elements of the Indonesian Army?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there are a lot of strategists who have got a lot of views. I think once again, I have seen a lot of material across my desk, I think once again the best answer that I can give to that is to say, it still remains as we expected it would be three or four days after the forces went in it still remains a very difficult, dangerous and sensitive operation. And the circumstances that we knew existed when we took the decision to go in have not changed or disappeared overnight. Certainly so far the multi-national force has done extremely well in establishing itself and has done a very professional job. And some semblance of order and stability has returned to Dili but it’s still very dangerous. And what people say in that general area could well be true.
MILLER:
All right. Well, are we confident, let me put it to you this way, are we confident that the Indonesian Government has actually got proper control of the armed forces in East Timor? Do we have any diplomatic channels open to Jakarta at the moment?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, we have plenty of diplomatic channels open to Jakarta, there’s no problem about that. And it’s fair to say that over the past few days, although teehee is still a lot of strain in the relationship, that some of that strain has abated or disappeared. Not all of it and a great deal of it won’t disappear for some time. We still have plenty of diplomatic contact with Jakarta. The Government in Jakarta is in transition. I think everybody knows that and you are aware that there are domestic pressures inside Indonesia and I sympathise with all concerned for those. It’s not an easy time for the Indonesian people or for the Indonesian Government. We are satisfied with the level of cooperation so far that we have obtained and received from the Indonesian Army in East Timor. That’s the line that I have received and that’s the view that’s been expressed to the Government by General Cosgrove and it’s a view that he’s expressed publicly. But it would be wrong to assume that all problems have disappeared. It would be wrong to assume that it doesn’t remain a very sensitive and dangerous operation which requires a great deal of skill and professionalism which the Australian and other soldiers are providing.
MILLER:
Now, I know the talk radio stations around the country, this one included, have had a myriad of calls in the last few days when people sometimes with some fairly off the wall suggestions but certainly people voicing concern about our defence readiness, our readiness as a nation to embark on an expedition such as this when the situation has obviously pointed out that we need to do it. But this morning the State President of the National Servicemen’s Association in Queensland called in and he says that they believe we should take heed of the situation, that it is a wake-up call for us and that we should be adopting a modern system of national service on the Swiss or Swedish model where 18 year old people are taken in and trained in a support role primarily to allow our professional soldiers into the field. Is that something we could consider?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, John, can I say to that gentleman and to all of your listeners that this has been a very sobering and important experience for Australia. We were ready for the contingency that arose in East Timor. You measure the readiness of a country, defence wise, on how it responds to an actual situation not to a theoretical situation. Now, we had an actual situation in East Timor where we were asked with little notice to provide not only a large number of troops but also the leadership of an important multi-national force. And we were able immediately to respond to that request. Now, people can talk in theory about our ability or inability to respond to imagined theoretical threats in the future but when you deal with an actual threat you are dealing with what has happened in East Timor, an actual situation not threat. Well, threats in a limited sense but not in a direct frontal sense. Now, we were able to respond to that and we were ready. And I don’t think anybody should lose sight of the fact that because of the preparations we put in hand months ago, the recommendation of the Defence Minister, Mr Moore, that we bring another brigade to a state of readiness. We were able to say yes, yes, immediately the UN asked us.
Now, as for the question of national service or any form of it, I am not avoiding that question, our view in the past has been that we would always be willing to consider the introduction of national service if the national military and defence need of Australia required. Now, to date that has not been the case and therefore we haven’t done so. Now, we are conducting a defence review and in the course of that defence review we will look at potential requirements in the future. I don’t believe on the advice available to me there’s any change in relation to national service but I am quite certain that there will be views put to that review by the defence groups and all others and we, naturally, are ready to look at them. And I understand why people advocate the introduction of national service, I also understand though that a modern military force needs a flexible capacity to respond to likely situations, not theoretical ones. And therefore our advice to date has always been of a particular kind in relation to national service. Now I think that’s sound advice. I think it remains valid now. But I’d also take the view that you have to gear it according to the national need. If I thought we needed national service I would advocate it. I don’t on the advice available to me believe we do, that’s why I don’t advocate it. But nobody should think that I sort of have a deep seated philosophical objection to it. I don’t. It’s just that I don’t believe at the present time that there is a defence need for it and until I’m told otherwise by those who know these things better than I do, professionally, I won’t have a different view and I think that’s a common sense stance for me to take.
MILLER:
Okay. Given that though, I think many Australians do regard what has happened here as a wake up call for us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think many Australians legitimately, and I agree with them and I’ve said it, what has happened here represents the overt manifestation of the need for this country to rethink a number of its defence and foreign policy attitudes of the past, particularly foreign policy attitudes. It’s driven home to us the foolishness of building a foreign policy on the notion of special relationships, and the compatibility of temperaments and personalities of the leaders of nations at any given period of time. We seek a good relationship, a close relationship with Indonesia. It’s important to us. But we have found on this occasion that on a very important issue to the Australian people that is what happens to East Timor. Our approach and that of Indonesia had diverged. Now that doesn’t mean to say we can’t remain on good terms, that we can’t restore a strong relationship. But it does mean that we’ve had to take a stand, and we’ve had the capacity, and had to have had the capacity to take a stand in relation to East Timor. And I think all of these events instruct us and advise us as to how we might behave in the future. And of course we have to feed into our defence review the experience of what has happened and is happening in East Timor. One of the things we’ll be looking at in our defence review is the whole pay structure of the armed forces. We did increase the special allowances for people in East Timor by almost 50%. And all of those along with the salary of the forces while they are there in accordance with the normal practice are completely tax free. We’ll be looking at all the other structures for pay in relation to the permanent forces and the reserves. I think it’s very important that we do that as part of the review.
MILLER:
Prime Minister, the Major-General Cosgrove has again said he wants to speed things up. Is he going to get all the support he needs?
PRIME MINISTER:
He’ll get all the support he needs. The lines of communication are very smooth. I get, along with my Senior Ministers, and I’ll be going off straight after this interview, a detailed briefing from the head of the Defence Force, the head of the Defence Department, and Foreign Affairs, and a special task group in my own department, and other agencies that are relevant to this. I get a briefing on the situation every morning. And he is getting all of the support that he needs and that remains good for the future.
MILLER:
All right. Prime Minister, and now on to something really important, what’s your tips for the grand finals?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I’m an old St George man and I hope the amalgamated St George-Illawarra Dragons win. I believe they will. And I’m not only hoping they will win, I’m tipping them to win. In relation to the AFL which I’m going down to tomorrow, I would like to see Carlton win but I think it will be very tough for them. I guess it’s a triumph of the heart over the head, a triumph of hope over experience. But they did very well against Essendon, although it was only a 1 point margin. I would like to see Carlton win.
MILLER:
Well I’d like to see Carlton win too because it means we could say well the last time the premiers were here we beat them by 73 points.
PRIME MINISTER:
I see. But very very importantly, at a national level, I think we’ll all wish our Davis Cup team well.
MILLER:
Absolutely.
PRIME MINISTER:
And it’s in Brisbane. And I saw the tie in Boston, the first day of the tie in Boston between Australia and the United States and Hewitt and Rafter did a fantastic job in almost 100 degree temperature in the old language, and it was a mighty effort. And I hope they beat the Russians and go on to win the Cup.
MILLER:
Okay, Prime Minister John Howard, thanks for talking to us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Pleasure.
[Ends]