MARTIN:
Prime Minister, thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
It's a pleasure.
MARTIN:
Wharfies and Wik - it's got a certain ring about it. Do I
hear an election coming on?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't know when the election will be. But I want to say
that I've always wanted a more productive waterfront because
that's good for jobs, good for investment and good for our
future. Australia's an island continent and we desperately
need an efficient waterfront if we are to survive and prosper in
the modern economic environment.
MARTIN:
If it was about productivity then why sack waterfront workers in
Adelaide and productive ports?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they're all part of the one union. I mean, we didn't
sack them...
MARTIN:
They had to go.
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, clearly the union had declared war on the company and the
union leadership, for years, has refused the blandishments of the
employers and other governments to bring more productive and more
competitive practices to the waterfront.
MARTIN:
The 40 or so that went in Adelaide or those in Tasmania, that's
just unfortunate.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, one of the consequences of having a bargaining monopoly ruthlessly
used in the hands of the union that won't listen to reason
is that some innocent people get affected.
MARTIN:
Because they say the other side, PM, wouldn't they - I mean,
the unions would say: look, this is a badly run company, it's
poor management, they've got no overall scheme. And what could
they do?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't think there's any doubt, every single study
has demonstrated that our wharves are inefficient by world standards
and something had to be done in the interests of...yes?
MARTIN:
Well today, I mean, we have a document from the Victorian Government.
Jeff Kennett, the Liberal Party leader, put a nice polished document
out in which he says promotes the wharves of Australia. He says
quick ship turnaround times in Melbourne. He says companies located
in Melbourne are assured of speedy and price competitive international
shipping services. This is not the union, this is the Government
of Victoria saying...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the cold figures are that the container rate on a base is
18 an hour, on average, in Australian ports - 30 in Asia.
MARTIN:
But why, see...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't...well, perhaps you've got to ask Jeff
about that.
MARTIN:
But is he wrong, he said...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I can tell you what the figures are.
MARTIN:
I won't keep on at that but it's interesting, isn't
it, that you find a Liberal government of Victoria trying to promote
the wharves the very time that you're saying they're inefficient,
they're totally...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think that very same Liberal Premier was in the papers
this morning strongly supporting the changes to the law that my
Government has made.
MARTIN:
Now, you get the case of the Patricks manager in Adelaide who refused
to sack his 40 workers - he thought they were so efficient - so
he got sacked himself.
PRIME MINISTER:
But you've got to remember that you've...the unions themselves
insist on a bargaining monopoly. They want one voice to speak for
all dock workers all around Australia. And what my Government has
tried to do is to break the monopoly of the union. We're not
trying to break unions. We don't oppose unionism. We don't
oppose unionists. We have no quarrel with people being members of
trade unions. What we do have a quarrel with is the union, the MUA,
indeed, any other union holding a monopoly over the supply and the
recruitment of labour. And all the things you're talking about
are a direct consequence, not of what we've done, but a direct
consequence of the very bargaining monopoly in the hands of the
union that we have tried to break.
MARTIN:
But we have today, we've got church leaders and others saying,
look, you know, they fear we're about to have another era of
industrial strife in Australia because of this.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they really are wrong, Ray.
MARTIN:
We're not?
PRIME MINISTER:
We're not. Well, last year we had the lowest number of industrial
disputes for 85 years - 85 years.
MARTIN:
Well, we've just sacked 1400.
PRIME MINISTER:
But Ray, I mean, that, in a sense, demonstrates that this particular
union has been out of step with the rest of the community. This
demonstrates that this particular union has tried to cling to restrictive
practices that other unions have given up.
MARTIN:
All right. Are you surprised the ACTU decided, tonight, not to
take action?
PRIME MINISTER:
Pleasantly surprised because that is a sensible decision. The world
has changed.
MARTIN:
What next then? What happens now...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think the significant thing is that non-union labour, for
the first time in decades, in some areas for the first time in Australia's
history, is now working on the waterfront in Australia and that
is a huge change. But remember, this is all about getting more jobs,
more exports and more opportunities for Australia and giving...
MARTIN:
That sounds weird, though, doesn't it, when you think we've
just lost 1400?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't want...I never want anybody to lose their jobs and
I regret the fact that those 1400 people have been stood down. But
you've got to remember that it was the leadership of their
union that created that circumstance. If they had changed their
position over the years, even a few months ago, and adopted a more
cooperative attitude and not tried to destroy Patricks, this would
never have happened.
MARTIN:
You leave the impression clearly that the war is over, that you
figure it's been...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I don't regard it as a war. That's your language,
it's not mine. I don't use...
MARTIN:
Every paper in Australia...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the papers - I mean, they can choose to use that language,
I don't. As Prime Minister, I never use war' to
describe a situation that involves human beings and involves people's
hopes and aspirations.
MARTIN:
All right. Almost out of time but just very briefly - Wik. Is there
any way that you can win on your 10 Point Wik Plan without a double
dissolution?
PRIME MINISTER:
Not unless the Senate minor parties were to indicate to me some
time in the next few months that they would be willing to pass our
Bill.
MARTIN:
And they're not going to do that, are they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'd like them to.
MARTIN:
But if they don't, that is a double dissolution, isn't
it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, if we are to get it passed, yes.
MARTIN:
So, it's an election before the end of October.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, if we are to have a double dissolution the Parliament has
to be dissolved before the 29th of October.
MARTIN:
And PM, are you happy to go to an election on these two issues
of the wharfies and Wik?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Ray, I'd never wanted Wik to be an issue at the election.
I've never wanted that.
MARTIN:
It will be one.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the Senate has made that necessary. For my part, it won't
figure prominently...
MARTIN:
But again, just briefly, are you happy tonight, if you have to,
to go on Wik and wharfies?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, happy is the wrong word in relation to Wik. I believe the
changes that we've made on the waterfront are in Australia's
interests and I'm naturally always ready to defend and explain
those changes in an election campaign. But there'll be other
issues like taxation reform.
MARTIeform.
MARTIN:
All right, Prime Minister, thanks for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Pleasure.
[Ends]