MITCHELL:
Mr Howard, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Neil.
MITCHELL:
Is there a suggestion of a pre-emptive strike from India?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have only heard the news reports. I don't have any additional
information. What has happened is very disturbing, to some even
frightening. One would have thought a few years ago that one thing
the world had really got clever about was the possibility of nuclear
war and in a sense, over the last few years most of us have assumed
that the threat of nuclear war that many people lived under between
the late 1940s and the late 1980s had disappeared.
MITCHELL:
Well you would have to say it's back now.
PRIME MINISTER:
It certainly is very worrying indeed and what of course is just
appalling and tragic about this whole episode is that we are dealing
with two countries that are still by world standards desperately
poor. Pakistan worse so than India but both compared to what we
have in this country, very poor. Inevitably the world must impose
sanctions otherwise it just looks as though it doesn't care.
Those sanctions will hurt the ordinary people of those two countries
yet despite all of that, there appears on the surface anyway to
be cheering in the streets in both countries, that each of them
now has nuclear capacity and each is now in this, what many people
would see, crazy man's club of possessing nuclear weapons.
Now it is a very concerning situation. Words are easy on an occasion
like this and in a sense, you run out of emphatic language to express
your concern and disgust and obviously, we will be saying things
later today. The Foreign Minister will be announcing a number of
responses by Australia to what Pakistan has done. What I regret
most of all is that Pakistan gave up the opportunity of occupying
the moral high ground. Everybody urged Pakistan not to retaliate.
President Clinton spoke to the Prime Minister of Pakistan. Other
world leaders, including myself, got in touch with the Pakistani
Government. The Foreign Minister did. Everybody around the globe
was urging the Pakistani Government not to respond and if in fact
Pakistan had not responded then I am sure the ordinary people of
that country would have been the winners. Now what has happened
is that both countries are internationally condemned. Now I don't
want to be alarmist because the idea that we are sort of on the
brink of some outbreak of hostilities between those two countries
I don't believe on my assessment that that is the case.
MITCHELL:
I notice, the Foreign Minister said this morning there were suggestions
from India that a pre-emptive strike has been prepared.
PRIME MINISTER:
There were suggestions. Now we must hope that those are wrong and
there are some grounds for believing that those reports could be
wrong, but it is a much more dangerous situation now than what it
was a few days ago. It is a much more dangerous situation than it
was a few months ago. It's quite a challenge to the rest of
the world. We can all express our alarm. We can all in different
ways, and there's a particular responsibility on the major
countries of the world, the most powerful, that is, the United States
in particular, to bring all the pressure it can both through trade
sanctions but also through diplomacy and argument and persuasion
and appeals to commonsense and logic. I mean, nobody but nobody
will gain anything and people, millions of people will lose an enormous
amount if there is any outbreak of hostility between the two countries.
MITCHELL:
I see Pakistani leaders saying that the people are willing to eat
grass to build their nuclear capability. It would seem that logic
has gone already.
PRIME MINISTER:
That was a statement, as I understand, made years ago by the former
Pakistani Prime Minister, Mr Bhutto, the father of Benazir Bhutto,
when he launched Pakistan's drive to get a nuclear capacity.
I mean, it is crazy, it is unbelievable that a country as dirt poor
as Pakistan should be diplomatically romancing, or strategically
romancing in the idea that in some way it's reached a pinnacle
of respectability by acquiring the nuclear capacity. It is very,
very disturbing. It is a turn of events that has, I think, taken
the world by and large by surprise because most believed that the
idea of a resumption of the nuclear arms race, the nuclear contest,
was very unlikely and something we had really put behind.
MITCHELL:
Okay, well what can Australia do? What aid is sent to Pakistan by
Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
There is some aid and Alexander Downer will be announcing today
what our response is. I can say that that response will be very
similar to the response that followed the detonation of nuclear
devices by India. We can do no less than retaliate the same way
as we retaliated against India. We have to do that even though it
will have a negative impact along with similar retaliation from
other countries on the people of Pakistan and India. But there is
no alternative. If you don't retaliate at all, then other countries
that might be thinking of doing the same thing as India and Pakistan
and investing precious resources that ought to be going towards
improving the living standards of their desperately poor people,
might be encouraged to do the same thing.
So we must do what we will announce later today that we intend
to do. We must use whatever diplomatic influence we have. We do
have some, not as much as other countries but we do have certain
things in common with both of those countries, membership of the
Commonwealth, shared historical and other links. We really do need
to draw on all of those and the rest of the world needs to draw
on all of those to confront both countries with the dangerous reality.
And the amazing thing is that the ongoing tension between the two
countries still, in the main, goes back to the dispute over that
province that they argued over at the time of the partition of the
Indian sub-continent in 1947 - that's Kashmir. And it really
is just crazy but then I suppose it's fair to say that it's
taken more than 50 years to get the warring tribes in Northern Ireland
to sit down and talk to each other so I guess some would say 50
years is not all that long.
MITCHELL:
Do you think there's a point to supporting boycotts and that
sort of thing?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't like them. I don't see a lot of point in them, I don't.
I never have.
MITCHELL:
Do you think this is, is it posturing, is it chest thumping or do
you think it is genuinely dangerous, in the sense danger of conflict?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, once you have nuclear weapons in the hands of two countries
next door to each other who have been at loggerheads, who have fought
conventional wars with each other within the last 50 years, once
those two countries have nuclear weapons the danger of something
happening is much, much greater. Even in the calmest analysis you
would have to concede that and these two countries, and there is
an enmity based in history, in religious and ethnic difference and
bitter political rivalry over the ownership of what was seen as
a symbolic prize at the time of Indian partition in 1947 - that's
the control of the state of Kashmir and that issue has still not
been resolved. Now, we may all think that is unbelievable but I
guess when you look at the disputes that have gone on for more than
50 years in other parts of the world, those two countries are not
alone in being at loggerheads over that one thing, and other things,
but that's really at the core of it for such a long period
of time.
MITCHELL:
Okay. We've got a caller through on this issue so we will take
that if that's okay. Hello Dean, go ahead.
CALLER:
Good morning. My gripe, if you like, is simply, how come these so-called
third world countries with no money can afford to find the money
for these bombs and yet countries like Australia keep on supporting
them, when it's money that would probably be better spent here
in Australia.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I suppose we are generous hearted enough as a community to
believe that even though we have a lot of our own problems, the
living standard of people in these countries is so desperately low
and there is no comparison between life of the ordinary Indian and
the ordinary Pakistani.
JOURNALIST:
If Australia is....
PRIME MINISTER:
We don't contribute an enormous amount of aid.
JOURNALIST:
How much is it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think it would be in the tens of millions, it wouldn't
be more than that. I can't tell you off-hand the exact figure.
But they are not the major recipients of aid from Australia. They
do get some aid from Australia and I think a country such as Australia
should always be willing to give some aid to the less fortunate.
But can I say....
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] stops now does it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we suspended non-humanitarian aid, that is, aid in areas other
than say medicines and food stuffs and that kind of thing, items
similar to that. We suspended those in relation to India. We will
obviously be doing the same in relation to Pakistan. You've
always got an agonising choice here. You want to punish the political
deeds of the government of the country but you don't want to
make it even harder for people who already find life very hard within
that country. And that is a very agonising dilemma. But can I say
to Dean, the answer to your question is, how can they find the money.
They find the money by being even meaner in their dealings with
their people. They are much meaner than they should be and I think
it is morally reprehensible that countries as poor as India and
Pakistan should squander their scarce resources on these sorts of
exploits and that really is quite tragic.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, if we may move onto the tax ....
PRIME MINISTER:
Sure.
JOURNALIST:
Now obviously you stand by your promise that once a GST rate once
introduced, it will not increase unless I'm correct and that's
what you said.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
JOURNALIST:
And that's not just for a term of Parliament or that's
how long....
PRIME MINISTER:
What it means simply is that as far as I am concerned it won't
go up.
JOURNALIST:
Okay. What about the tax rates? I assume that you will make changes
to the tax rates as part of this package. Will the top tax rate
come down, will the corporate tax come down?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I can't really go into that at this stage because quite
frankly, quite frankly Neil, we haven't finished the package,
we are still working on it. We are fairly well advanced but we haven't
finished it. There will be reductions in personal income tax. But
the most important thing I want to say to the Australian public
about this tax reform package is that reforming the tax system is
the next logical step in making Australia a more secure country
economically. It is very important to our security and stability
and safety, particularly against the background of what's happening
in Asia.
JOURNALIST:
Just one point I am making is that if the GST rate is to be set
in stone it's not going to change and you do bring down the
rates as you'll have to I assume as part of the package. Are
they set in stone as well or do they increase at later stages?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, deeds are more important than words I suppose in these things
and we've brought down three budgets and there has been no
increase in personal tax rates. There's been no increase in
company tax rates and there's been no increase in wholesale
tax rates in the three budgets that we've brought down. Obviously
it would not be our wish to increase any levels of taxation.
JOURNALIST:
Yeah but you see my point, you are going to the people....one would
think, around the 30-30-10 tax rate and 10 per cent GST. Once you
present that to people the is whole thing set or is there a possibility
that down the track the GST stays the same but the tax rates go
up again?
PRIME MINISTER:
Neil, I'll be presenting the package, there is a lot of speculation
around at the moment as to what's in it. I am not going to
respond to this or that piece of speculation but obviously because
a broad-based indirect tax or a GST would be a new way of levying
indirect tax in this country, most of the focus will be on that,
or has been on it. But it's the overall package and the benefit
to the Australian economy of the overall package that really counts.
JOURNALIST:
Okay, but we'd be right in assuming that there will be changes
to the top tax rate and the corporate rate?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am not going to go into the detail of what may or may not
happen to individual rates or what individual rates might be. I
have avoided doing that and I am going to continue avoiding doing
that until the detail of the package is announced. I will, however,
repeat the assurance I gave last year that the overall tax burden
will not rise and that there will be reductions in personal income
tax. Now in aggregate the package is designed to improve the strength
and the security of the Australian economy. We are reforming the
tax system because we think it is in the national economic interest
to do it.
JOURNALIST:
Can I ask about the fuel excise because Mr Fischer seemed to be
suggesting a couple of days ago there'd be a change to fuel
excise, is that correct?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, once again that is one of the issues that, along with a whole
lot of other issues, is being considered. I am not going to confirm
or deny any changes in that area any more than I am going to confirm
or deny changes to particular rates of income tax. I am just not
going to go any further on that, not that I don't want to take
the Australian public fully into my confidence. I mean they will
have all of the detail before the next election. They will have
time to consider it. We will lay out our plans and if the Australian
public believes that our plan is in the best interests of the country,
they'll support it. If they don't, well they can vote
against it. Now I don't say that aggressively or provocatively
but I do think that something as important as this people are entitled
to be told before the election what our plan is and we are going
to tell them. We are going to be open and transparent and honest
and I'll answer questions on it. But until we've completed
all the work I am not going to piecemeal respond to individual questions
much in all as I understand the interest of you and your listeners
and I don't blame you for asking me but I'm just not going
to do it at the moment.
JOURNALIST:
Okay. We've got a couple of calls.
PRIME MINISTER:
Sure.
JOURNALIST:
Hello Ian, go ahead.
CALLER:
Yes Neil. It's regarding, Mr Howard, it's regarding the
transfer of some of the tax collection from income to spending.
I am a self-funded retiree and I feel that I am going to be a casualty
here. I've earnt concessions on tax through deductible amounts
in rebates but I don't pay tax on the first $30,000 I draw
and I estimate that I'll probably spent....cost me about $30
a week with the introduction of a GST.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't know how you can possibly make that calculation
unless somebody has sort of suggested a figure for the purposes
of this programme because you don't know what the figures of
our tax policy are. I mean how can you say you are losing $30 a
week when you don't know what's in the package?
CALLER:
Well, it's only a rough estimate, I've....
PRIME MINISTER:
I am sorry sir....
CALLER:
I've gone half at 10%.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am sorry sir, you don't know what is in the package.
So can I say to you with the greatest of respect, please suspend
your judgement until we bring the package out. I do ask you to do
that, I mean, it's very easy at the moment for our opponents
to run around saying this or that and creating concern in the community.
It amounts to the easy, lazy political option for the Labor Party
at the moment. But sir, wait until the package comes out. We have
been very sensitive to the needs of self-funded retirees. In the
last Budget, you know we extended the Seniors' Card to self-funded
retirees. And judging by what you have told me, before that Budget
announcement you wouldn't have been entitled to that Seniors'
Card and from the 1st of January next year you will. So once again
look at our deeds, don't listen to the words of our opponents.
JOURNALIST:
Thanks Ian. Another GST call, Hayden, go ahead please.
CALLER:
Yes, good morning Mr Howard how are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm well.
CALLER:
I just thought I'd ask one area where you obviously can comment.
The Opposition intends to block this in the Senate. I mean they're
akin to saying they don't want people to breathe as far as
the election goes. This issue is obviously going to be put up to
an election and I would just call on Mr Beazley and others if the
Liberal Party are returned to allow it to pass in the Senate. You
know, we have democratic rights and freedoms and we would like both
parties to accept those and uphold those.
JOURNALIST:
Yeah, we did talk about that a couple of weeks ago.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I obviously agree with what Hayden said. I mean he is absolutely
right. I will be going to the Australian public with a detailed
tax plan. It will be a huge issue in the election campaign. If the
public votes me back as Prime Minister then I have every moral,
political and I think ordinary common sense right to say to the
opposition parties in the Senate, "will you please let through
the legislation that the Australian people supported". Now,
if they in the face of that say no', they are really
thumbing their nose at the public and they are demonstrating they've
learnt nothing from their defeat in 1996.
MITCHELL:
Mr Howard, One Nation. On your personal ballot paper, would you
put Labor ahead of One Nation?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that is something I will announce when all other preference
arrangements are announced.
MITCHELL:
What about your personal ballot paper?
PRIME MINISTER:
You mean my personal ballot paper? Well I'll obviously, I'll
obviously vote the same way in my electorate as I ask my supporters
to vote. It would be rather hypocritical of me personally to say
one thing to my supporters and then in the privacy of a ballot box
do something else. I think that is the height of hypocrisy. But
how I will recommend people vote in my electorate as Party leader
is something that I will announce when other preference arrangements
are announced.
MITCHELL:
Does that mean there's a possibility One Nation could still
get the nod ahead of Labor?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think you should necessarily infer that. I don't
think you should infer that in either way.
MITCHELL:
Do you agree with the comments of Malcolm Fraser today where he
has attacked One Nation very strongly?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I disagree...
MITCHELL:
And criticising of the Queensland Government.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm not criticising the Queensland Government. I mean
we ought to get a reality check about Queensland. There's only
one issue to be resolved in Queensland, and that, over the next
couple of weeks, and that is whether Rob Borbidge or Peter Beattie
is the Premier after the 13th of June.
MITCHELL:
Yeah but how far do you go with political expediency to achieve
that and that's the point that Malcolm Fraser's making.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you're talking here about the question of who is the
Premier of Queensland. Now there are a lot of people who are attracted
to the One Nation Party apparently, in a superficial way, for I
think, very insubstantial reasons and I think what the leaders of
the mainstream political parties should be doing is talking directly
to those people and saying that you are wasting your vote in supporting
the One Nation Party. If the One Nation Party were to achieve influence
in Queensland then that would be a bad thing.
MITCHELL:
Do you believe it would hurt Australia if One Nation won seats
in Queensland, if the perception in Asia would be that we had moved
to this new right?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it would be better if One Nation didn't win seats
anywhere. But I don't think that the ways to ensure that is
necessarily the path advocated by many people in the community who
disagree with my approach. I believe the best way to diminish the
influence of One Nation - I mean I agree with people who say it
would be a bad thing if One Nation won seats, I do agree with them
- I happen to believe the best way to diminish the influence of
the One Nation Party is to talk in a calm sensible manner to the
people who are superficially attracted to One Nation.
MITCHELL:
Well, should Malcolm Fraser have stayed out of this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look I just don't want to talk about Malcolm Fraser I'm
sorry. Well I mean you can ask me about him.....
MITCHELL:
Well he's criticised...
PRIME MINISTER:
I know, all right...
MITCHELL:
You're the Prime Minister....[inaudible].
PRIME MINISTER:
I know, well he can do that but, I can also as the current Prime
Minister, Neil, if I choose, I can choose simply not to respond
to what Mr Fraser has said and can go on and talk about what is
contemporary and what is important, and that is how my Party and
the National Party say to those people who may otherwise support
our two Parties, who may be flirting with One Nation, what we should
be doing is saying to them it's a wasted vote, that the deep
seated concerns that you have can best be addressed by the Liberal
Party and the National Party without the negative things that attached
to support for One Nation. I mean it's plainly the case that
a number of the policies One Nation has embraced are wrong and negative
and against Australia's interests. Now the best way to diminish
One Nation's support is not to scream abuse at people who might
be considering supporting One Nation, rather it is to talk to those
people in.....
MITCHELL:
Surely it's not to do a deal with to get yourself into Government
which is what......
PRIME MINISTER:
Well see, I don't agree with that. I don't agree with
that at all. I believe the most sensible thing to do is to pursue
a policy which diminishes the influence of One Nation by explaining
to people who are attracted to that Party in a temporary transient
way why it's a wasted vote to support that Party.
MITCHELL:
Is it a racist Party?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think some of the people who support it are racist.
MITCHELL:
Are their policies racist?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well some of their policies , if they are seriously wanting to
discriminate against migrants coming to this country on the basis
of race, then of course it is. I mean I believe, I believe in a
completely non-discriminatory immigration policy. But can I say
this, that most of the people, or many of the people who are attracted
to One Nation, it's very hard to quantify these things, are
people in the main, living in regional areas of Australia who've
suffered economic set backs. I understand that and I understand
that life in some parts of regional Australia is difficult. And
what I'm saying to them is that your concerns will be better
met if you support the Liberal and National Parties. Pauline Hanson
has no answers to regional unemployment that haven't been considered
by my Government. I mean I haven't heard a single thing that
Mrs Hanson or any of her supporters have uttered over the past few
months that will in any way improve the lot of the people who are
attracted to her. So, my policy and my approach is to try and engage
some of the people who are attracted to her, listen to them, try
and understand why they are attracted, point out the ill wisdom
of supporting a party that is seen as offensive to many Australians
of Asian descent and I think if we address the people who are attracted
to her rather than yelling at them in a censorious fashion, we've
got more opportunity of getting them back and denying Mrs Hanson
any Parliamentary representation.
MITCHELL:
Mr Howard, than
Mr Howard, thank you very much for your time again.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.