E&OE...............................................
HADLEY:
Yesterday in Adelaide the Prime Minister John Howard announced his
new approach to one of our biggest problems, youth unemployment. Basically
the rules are going to be tougher. Long-term unemployed youngsters
on the dole with have to do certain things to keep getting the dole,
either go into some training course or do community work or even relocate
to areas where there are more jobs. I like it tough, fair but pretty
sensible. The Prime Minister John Howard on line from South Australia
to explain more about it. Prime Minister, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Ray.
HADLEY:
Did you enjoy your break?
PRIME MINISTER:
I did, I did enjoy my break. I read a few books and I had a good break.
HADLEY:
That is good. It is a good part of the world to enjoy a break up there.
PRIME MINISTER:
It is, I was pursued by the odd journalist, but it was nonetheless
pleasant. And I played a lot of golf, I can't say that the handicap
is any lower, but I enjoyed that as well.
HADLEY:
I can speak from experience, playing more doesn't make it get
better.
PRIME MINISTER:
It is one of the frustrating things about golf, I find if I haven't
played for about three months the first game after the three months
is not too bad and the second game is awful.
HADLEY:
You are like those horses, good first up from a spell sometimes.
PRIME MINISTER:
That is right.
HADLEY:
Unemployment down, but youth unemployment rate is on the rise is this
repackaging an attempt to stem the flow of children and young people
on the dole?
PRIME MINISTER:
It is a two-pronged attack. One part of it is to ensure that we put
more resources into removing the causes of youth unemployment. And
one of those is that a lot of young people leave school now can't
read and write properly and that is the main reason why they can't
get a job or can't hold down a job.
Now one of the new rules we are going to introduce is, that if you
have been out of work for six months and your literacy and numeracy
skills are below par then we are going to provide you with a remedial
course so that you do become literate and numerate. But it will be
a condition of your getting the unemployment benefit that you go along
to those classes. Now I think that is fair and reasonable and it will
also help the young person involved. It will improve that person's
skills, but at the same time it is saying to the community that under
our mutual obligation approach, we will look after people who can't
get work provided they give something back in return.
Now for other people, giving something back in return could involve
being involved in a work the dole scheme. Still others will have the
option, if they live in an area of high unemployment of relocating
to an area of higher employment. It will not, as one of the papers
wrongly suggested this morning, I think the Sydney Morning Herald,
result in people being compelled to move it is just that that will
be one of the options that is available to meet their obligation to
the community.
HADLEY:
I think that will allay a few fears for people in rural Australia.
PRIME MINISTER:
Look if they don't want to move they have got the option of going
into a work for the dole scheme or going into something else. There
are five or six alternatives that are available. But the principle
Ray is a very simple one, and that is, if you are between 18 and 24,
you have been out of work for six months, then if you are to continue
to get the full unemployment benefit you have got to do something
in return. Now that can be in one of these literacy and numeracy courses,
it can be in a work for the dole scheme, it could be in some kind
of voluntary work, it could be in a training place, it will depend
upon the circumstances of the individual. But you have got to do something
to continue to get the full rate of the unemployment benefit.
It is a general principle and it is based on, as I say, the notion
of mutual obligation. We look after them, we are not prepared to have
people starving and begging in the streets in this country, that is
not the Australian way, but we say to people who aren't in work,
ok we will look after you but we ask you to do something in return.
And we are not asking them to be involved in slave labour, we are
simply asking them to put some time back into the community in one
of a variety of ways. I think it is fair, I think it is a principle
that most Australians support. And it is also a principle I think
young people will support.
HADLEY:
I think you will get support for that. Now I don't know whether
I have discussed this with you before but it is one of my old soap-box
issues. In 1972 when I left school all of a sudden it was made more
attractive for young people to be on the dole, as a result people
my age, entering their 44th year, have children who have never worked,
they have never worked, is this about breaking a cycle as well?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh it is, very much so. Ray, there is no doubt that in the early 70s
there was a profound cultural change in this area and habits of work
began to disappear from sections of the community. And what we are
about, as much as anything else in the work for the dole approach,
is to give to young people the habit and the discipline, if you like,
of work.
I mean, the very notion of having to be somewhere at a particular
time and the habit of work is a very, very important element. And
when you have grown up in an environment where you friends and your
family members aren't in work then the habit of work is something
that is very difficult to attain. And what we are trying to do here
is to, through this mutual obligation approach, get people into the
habit and the pattern of work and that will make them more attractive
for a full-time job.
HADLEY:
You have allotted $383 million over 4 years, how will that money be
spent?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it will be spent, some of it on creating the 12,000, we estimate,
literacy and numeracy training places which will be needed for the
people whose literacy and numeracy skills are down. We are generating
another 25,000 work for the dole places. We are introducing a very
innovative scheme, on a pilot basis to see how it goes, and that is
a system of what is called mentoring'. In other words,
we are inviting people from the community, and there are already a
lot of service organisations who are anxious to help, people to really
take a young person or one or two young people under their wing and
on a one-on-one basis give them advice.
Really like, you might call unemployment counsellors on a voluntary
basis. I mean, there are a lot of people who volunteer their time
to work in magnificent organisations like Lifeline and they will spend
several hours a night on a telephone counselling young people who
are in all situations of despair. Now there are a lot of people in
the community who are prepared to spend a bit of time each week talking
to young people, giving them advice, giving them encouragement, giving
them hope because some young people don't have any of that because
they come from collapsed family structures, they don't have many
friends, they have low self-esteem. And if we could sort of get two
or three young people a mentor, so to speak, I think over a period
of time that would help.
Now we are doing it on a pilot basis and we are only, at this stage,
going to try and look after about a thousand young people but it is
yet another way of doing two things. We are going to try and tap community
idealism, because there are a lot of people out there who want to
help young people, they don't want to knock them they want to
help them. And they realise, particularly people who have had a happy,
successful family background they would like to give something in
return, give something back to the community for young people who
haven't. And I think this could be the beginning of yet another
way of tackling an extremely difficult problem.
I am not saying it is the answer, and I am not pretending that a thousand
places is going to solve the problem, but if it works on a pilot basis
then it is something that can be spread through the community.
HADLEY:
Just on another issue. The news room just passed me a wire service
story which you would probably interested in. International mining
giant Rio Tinto won an appeal in the Australian Industrial Relations
Commission quashing an earlier decision for the Commission to intervene
in industrial disputes. Of course, in relation to their dispute with
the Hunter Valley No.1 coal miners strike. Do you think this will
lead to a renewal of strike action there?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it shouldn't. I will need, and Peter Reith will undoubtedly
analyse that decision. It is a very interesting development. What
we've sought to do in the industrial relations area and this
applies to the waterfront, as much as to the coal fields, is that
we've sought to change the law to open the whole system up to
more competition and to the use of non-union staff, non-union employees.
We are not trying to destroy the unions, we are not trying to stop
people belonging to unions, we never will. But what we are endeavouring
to do is to say to people and to companies, if you want to start a
new business, in the case of the waterfront and providing you act
within the law, good luck, go ahead and do it. It is more competition,
lower prices, better product for the consumer. In the case of the
coal fields then you have got to get rid of many of those disruptive
work practices which, I mean all of these things have been made more
urgent and more necessary, Ray, because of what has happened in Asia.
I mean, anybody who thinks what has happened in Asia is a reason for
us to rest on our oars and think that we have done all we need to
do is completely wrong and complacent. What has happened in Asia is
a reminder both of the strengths we have, because we have been able
to withstand the storm, but on the other hand, it is a warning to
us that we have to run even faster and become even more competitive
to make certain that we keep the contagion, if you like, away from
Australia.
HADLEY:
On a similar theme, you are clearly behind the Farmers' Federation
in their battle with the Maritime Unions, how do you see that issue?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, what the Farmers' Federation is doing is the right of any
group of Australians, and that is to start a business. And they are
using the newly liberalised law to allow them to start a business.
They're not trying to destroy the union, they're trying
to start a business, run it profitably, take business away from existing
stevedores and get business for themselves. Now that is what everybody
does. I mean we are all subjected to competition, your radio station
is subjected to competition, people try and take my job away from
me every three years, people are always competing for the support
of the Australian community.
It seems there is only one section of the Australian community that
thinks it should never face any competition and that is the Maritime
Union of Australia. Because, I mean the only people, Ray, who are
talking warfare, talking thuggery, talking belligerence are the members
of the Maritime Union of Australia. I think the farmers are exercising
their right. They're Australian citizens who are doing their
level best to start a new business and heaven knows we need more productive,
we really do need more productive and more competitive wharves because
the cost of putting stuff through Australian wharves is too high and
if the cost were lower we would sell more abroad and we would all
be better off. And that is what the NFF is endeavouring to do and
good luck to them and I think most Australians will support them.
HADLEY:
I defy anyone that watched that 60 Minutes Report late last year to
have any support for the work practices that were explained to us.
I mean it was just quite incredible.
PRIME MINISTER:
Look you can not defend the indefensible and that is what the MUA
is trying to do.
I just say to the members of the MUA, look, nobody is trying to take
away your job, nobody is trying to destroy your union. All we are
endeavouring to do is to get more competition and more productivity
into the Australian waterfront. And the consumer, the Australian citizen,
the exporter, the importer will be better off as a result.
Even the Labor Party said at its national conference that it was in
favour of boosting productivity at container ports. Now, let's
see how they react. Let's see whether Mr Beazley is led by the
nose by Mr Coombs, or whether he like, joins me, in calling for more
productive Australian wharves. I mean the test on these things is
the national interest. I mean the government's responsibility
is to do things that help the whole of Australia, not sections of
Australia. I mean we're for all of us, not just for a section
of us and that is what we are trying to do.
HADLEY:
I said on air, on this programme, this week, I agree completely with
your firm rebuke of the Member of Oxley, who bagged Cathy Freeman.
I think that was your strongest, the strongest I have heard you on
the issue. Have you simply had enough of her whingeing, like the rest
of us?
PRIME MINISTER:
When I hear anybody say a stupid bigoted thing, I will attack them
and what she said was stupid, it was bigoted and it was ungracious
and wrong. I mean, I had actually been present. I gave Cathy Freeman
the Australian of the Year Award. I heard her speech in which she
rejoiced in the fact that she was an Australian. She also said, quite
understandably, quite properly, that she was very proud of her Aboriginal
background. Now how could anybody complain about that.
And there was this rather odd suggestion from the Member for Oxley
that the decision had been made by the Government and in order to
embarrass her. I mean, I didn't make the decision but I tell
you what I applauded it.
HADLEY:
Maybe you could later rest the conspiracy theorists' and tell
us exactly how the decision...
PRIME MINISTER:
The decision is made by the Australia Day Council and the Australia
Day Council is chaired by Kevin Gosper, of Olympic fame, and it is
made up of people who are chairmen of the various state committees
of the Australia Day Council around Australia and some other people
who are appointed as ordinary council members. And many of the people
on the current council would have been appointed during the time the
former government was in office, many by us, many by state governments
of different persuasions. It is a mixture of citizens and they meet
and they take nominations from the various state bodies and from elsewhere
and then they come up with a decision.
And I was notified that Cathy Freeman had been chosen as the Australian
of the Year about, probably, I guess, 10 days, before the announcement
was made. I naturally kept it to myself because we wanted it to be
held for the Day. She was amongst a, sort of, group of finalists -
so to speak - who came to Perth and I made the announcement. Now I
didn't play any role in it. The only role I played was to happily
have the privilege of making the announcement. And the same applied
to the girl who was chosen as the Young Australian of the Year about
probably, I guess, 10 days before the announcement was made. I naturally
kept it to myself because we wanted it to be held for the day. She
was amongst a group of finalists, so to speak, who came to Perth and
I made the announcement. Now, I didn't play any role in it. The
only role I played was to happily have the privilege of making the
announcement. And the same applied to the girl who was chosen as the
Young Australian of the Year.
HADLEY:
Tan Le.
PRIME MINISTER:
Tan Le. And she...in fact, I didn't know her identity until the
morning of the announcement. And once again, I played no personal
role. But let me say in relation to both choices, I thought they were
excellent. And each of the young women gave incredibly gracious acceptance
speeches and each of them are very good Australians. And I just thought
it was a singularly ungracious intervention by Mrs Hanson. I mean,
I just found it quite extraordinary.
HADLEY:
The republic convention starts in a week or so. A pretty diverse set
of candidates. You have admitted an understanding of having an Australian
as our Head of State in more recent times. Is that a softening of
your position?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it's not a change Ray. My position is that I think the
present system works very well and I don't believe that any replacement
system is going to work better. I understand that there are a lot
of people who want to change it because they feel uncomfortable with
the symbolism of the present system. And what I'm saying is that
although I myself do not think we would be better off with a different
system and I don't think for a moment that this country lacks
independence or that in some way the present system diminishes us
as a nation, I don't believe that at all. I mean, I've never
felt anything other than Australian. And I can say Ray, when I go
overseas and when I offer support to countries in our region, none
of them turn around to me and say, I don't think we can take
that support because you're not an independent country. I mean,
the idea that we're not independent is just ridiculous. But there
are a lot of people who say, despite that or whatever may be the arguments
in favour of the present system, we would like to change. Now, I understand
that. I'm not saying I agree with it. But I understand it. And
what I'm urging people to do at the convention is to agree on
what is the best alternative if there is to be a change, not that
I support it.
I mean, if we are to become a republic I'd rather it be a good
republic than a bad republic. And I think people ought to play a constructive
role. They should go there recognising that we are first and foremost
all Australians and we each have a positive view about the future
of our country. Let's agree on an alternative to the present
system so that that alternative can be put alongside the present system
and the Australian community can have a vote on it. So that if there
is to be a change, we can have that change on the 1st of January,
2001.
Now, equally, if the people reject that change, well, let's forget
it for the time being and let's celebrate our centenary without
the distraction of a debate on the republic. Now, I think that is
the positive, constructive way. It doesn't mean that I personally
have changed my own view. But it does mean that as Prime Minister
my first responsibility is to get a result. I want a smooth convention.
I want one where people fearlessly express their views but at the
same time they work towards an outcome that gives people the opportunity
of expressing a choice.
We all know that when the referendum comes one of the options is to
vote to retain the present system. We all know that. But what we don't
know is what the alternative is. Now, I don't like the idea of
a popular presidential election because I think you'll end up
having two Prime Ministers. I mean, if you have a popular presidential
election you could end up with a Labor President and a Liberal Prime
Minister or vice versa. I mean, you can imagine what a shemozzle that
would be. I mean, you've got to get
something done. It's hard enough now with the Senate. But if
you had that, just imagine if you had a Liberal Prime Minister or
a Labor Prime Minister and a Liberal President and you had the Democrats
controlling the Senate. I mean, heavens above, you'd get nothing
done. And on top of that you've got the States. And then people
will say:- Why doesn't the Government?' Well, I mean,
in that sort of situation, what can the Government do?
HADLEY:
I see Mr Beazley has changed his position on the popularly elected
president in more recent times.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think he's probably looked at