KENNERLEY:
Fresh from his induction as a living national treasure last night,
welcome the man who has to deal with all these issues and many,
many more. The Prime Minister of Australia, John Howard.
Good one Geoff, Go Johnnie Go, very nice, how appropriate. You
wouldn't have heard that one before!
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I haven't actually.
KENNERLEY:
We see a few St. George supporters.
PRIME MINISTER:
I saw them. Marvellous, wonderful, I am the patron of that great
club. Good day to come.
KENNERLEY:
How will they go this year?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I hope they do better than last year. But they have got a
few of their players back and I saw Mark and some of the team last
week when we got one of the commercials ready for the new NRL and
I hope it will be a good year for them.
KENNERLEY:
Well all the very best.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
KENNERLEY:
As I mentioned, last night I saw you at the function for 100 people
being inducted as National Living Treasures. You were involved in
that and inducted as well. Given the history of Australia being
a bit of a sort of the tall poppy syndrome in this country, celebrating
success like that, does that mean we are turning the corner rather
than cutting down our achievers?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think as we approach the 100 years of Federation we are looking
a bit more reflectively and positively on what we have achieved,
and who we are, and what we represent than we used to. And some
of that cynicism is going. It won't go altogether and it shouldn't
either. One of the great strengths of Australia is that we have
a certain protective scepticism and that allows us not to get to
carried away with what people say or do. But I think we are getting
a nice happy balance now in a way that we perhaps didn't have
before. And we really have achieved so much. And I said last night
that when I walked into that room and saw those people it felt like
a fast forward of my life over the last 40 odd years. The sporting
people like Dawn Fraser and Ken Rosewall, who I sort of remember
from much earlier years, the political figures that I have either
been along side or opposing the culture figures, the writers, the
musicians, people like Slim Dusty, who is sort of about as much
an icon of Australia as you get. A terrific night.
KENNERLEY:
Very, very good list there. You also spoke at the function last
night and talked about other very important Australians, we will
look at that.
PRIME MINISTER (Extract from speech to Living Treasures function):
And I have to say feeling it very personally that I said goodbye
yesterday to a 110 true living national treasures. And I know that
all Australians will be united in their hopes and prayers for the
safe return of those people.
KENNERLEY:
Mr Howard, sending people off to war could not be an easy decision.
I am sure it was very difficult. But when you close your eyes at
night knowing that that personal responsibility is John Howard the
Prime Minister's responsibility, knowing they may be maimed
or killed, how do you cope personally?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it is not easy. I talk to my wife about it, I talk to other
people who are close to me about it. I used the expression the other
day that. I did it with a sense of dread. Not that I think it was
the wrong decision but I am very conscious that it may result in
that. And as I flew across to Perth I looked out of the aircraft
window and just thought, over a period of an hour, an hour and a
half, of what I could say to those men that meant something, that
was honest, that didn't try and conceal what might be ahead
of them. I tried to convey to them why we had taken the decision
and how we felt about what they were doing and I really was able
to talk to each of them, to shake each one by the hand and look
them straight in the face and answer their questions.
They were a tremendous bunch of blokes. They were marvellous. They
had that sort of wonderful sort of cheeky, larrikin spirit, but
very disciplined, highly intelligent, eager to go, but comprehending
of what might be ahead. And they really made me immensely proud.
But it isn't easy. But you have to summon the capacity to understand
what you are doing, in an emotional sense, but to put against that
the overall national interest. It's not easy sometimes. And
I could have some sleepless nights ahead.
KENNERLEY:
We know that was a private moment when you spoke personally to
them. The media was excluded and I certainly wouldn't want
to infringe on that privacy, but what sort of questions, if you
are able to tell us, what sort of questions do they ask their Prime
Minister when they are going off to war?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well one of them asked me why the campaign in 1991 hadn't
been taken a step further, and Saddam Hussein completely attacked
and annihilated? And I answered that by giving them the answer that
General Colin Powell has given me back last year when he was in
Australia and I asked him that very same question. And he gave the
answer that, at
one stage the Iraqi army was left without any weapons, without
any tanks and many of the allied pilots were saying they didn't,
from a moral point of view, didn't like the idea of shooting
completely defenceless people. And I thought that made a lot of
sense as an answer. These judgements are very difficult. Now, they
are the sort of questions that I was asked and ....
KENNERLEY:
So did Colin Powell feel as if Saddam Hussein couldn't survive
again?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, that wasn't in that context, it was in the context of
1991. I mean our objective, if we have to use military force on
this occasion, our objective is to remove those weapons of mass
destruction.
KENNERLEY:
Well looking at that issue it is all about the fact Saddam Hussein
won't let the UN delegates in for a very, very good look. But
this has been going on for quite a while. Why has the President
of the United States decided to move now? What was the imperative?
Was there some extraordinary piece of frightening intelligence that
he received about some plan that he had to move and it was imperative
to move now?
PRIME MINISTER:
We have reached a point where every single reasonable opportunity
for him to comply with the United Nations requests has been given.
And we have sort of reached that end point. All of these things...
KENNERLEY:
So there is no other top secret agenda?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, well, no.
KENNERLEY:
Then why isn't France there? We are a bit lonely, there is
Britain, the United States...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no we are not lonely. The British are involved, the Canadians
are involved, the New Zealanders are involved, a number of the Arab
States are providing facilities for take-offs and basing and so
forth. And you can't assume that a country like France, if
military action is needed, you can't assume that a country
like France won't get involved.
KENNERLEY:
You don't think we are looking at another Vietnam?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don't. It has got no comparison with that at all.
KENNERLEY:
Indonesia is in the middle of what some people think is a real
melt-down, almost a civil war. Is Indonesia a security threat to
Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. What happens in Indonesia is immensely important to Australia
because it is our nearest neighbour, it is the largest Muslim country
in the world and we have got very close associations with it. And
I am watching what is happening there very closely. The Indonesian
economy is taking a fearfully hammering and there has been a huge
reduction in the wealth of that country almost overnight. And I
worry about the, you know, the potential if the situation is not
repaired. I worry about the potential for internal trouble. You
shouldn't write Indonesia off. I am sure that in the medium
to longer term Indonesia will recover. There is a great deal of
natural wealth and whatever criticism may be levelled at President
Soeharto, he has been remarkably successful amongst Asian leaders
and he has turned that country around in quite a dramatic fashion.
Now he runs it differently from the way we would run Australia.
I mean it is a different system, it is a different culture.
KENNERLEY:
If they go to civil war...
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think there will be a civil war.
KENNERLEY:
But if they do, the worst case scenario, you worry about the potential,
you just said that...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I worry about the potential for social disorder. I think
civil war is far too strong an expression.
KENNERLEY:
That potential for civil disorder then, how would that reflect
and impact on us?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well in a direct security sense it doesn't. And the other
point I must make here is that economically Australia is not greatly
effected by what is happening in Indonesia. The two countries that
we trade with most in Asia are Japan and Korea. We have some economic
links with Indonesia but it is more the proximity of the country
and so forth and its size as a Muslim country that is so important
to Australia.
KENNERLEY:
Would you have some more time to spend with us, there are so many
issues I know people are interested in?
PRIME MINISTER:
I would be very happy to stay.
KENNERLEY:
We are very grateful for your time today. We will take a break
on Midday and we will be back with the Prime Minister.
[Commercial break]
PRIME MINISTER:
Hello there, hi.
KENNERLEY:
Welcome back to Midday we are still joined by John Howard our Prime
Minister. In fact, in the break Mr Howard asked if he could come
over and meet some of our guests today and this gentleman in the
front, in fact, had a wonderful comment. Sir, would you repeat it?
AUDIENCE MEMBER:
This is a great country because we can talk to our Prime Minister
and we can have a referendum without a war. Most other countries
have a war before they sort out problems of change at our Convention
and so forth.
PRIME MINISTER:
That is absolutely right. The great thing about that thing we had
in Canberra was that, everybody had a, there was a whole lot of
views, different ages, huge cross-section of the community and we
could do it without rancour. And I came away thinking to myself:
well no matter what the result of it all is, we are going to hang
together, there will be no problem and we will sort it out. Nobody
else is going to have anything to do with it and I think that is
terrific and what you said is absolutely right. It is the greatest
place in the world and we do have that quality of being able to
talk to each other directly and say our piece in a very blunt fashion
when we feel like it and I have been the recipient of some blunt
comments over the years and still am. I find sometimes I get them
when I go walking in the morning.
KENNERLEY:
Do you have a comment, gentlemen? Actually we may wander back unless
there is another comment that anybody else would like to make to
our Prime Minister. This is a wonderful opportunity to get straight
to the heart.
AUDIENCE MEMBER:
I just wanted to say that I don't envy your position having
to send troops off to possible war and just so that we get to say
this to you, it is really good, because I wouldn't want to
do it. So I admire you for that.
PRIME MINISTER:
It is very hard. I mean, it is the right decision from the country's
point-of-view but I feel the personal part of it. I mean, there
were 100 of them in the room and I shook each hand and tried to
talk to them. It was difficult but they were, their spirit is tremendous
because these are amongst the most highly trained people in Australia
and they regard themselves - quite rightly - as the best in the
world and they are and it gives you a tremendous sense of pride.
But I hope, and we all pray, that there be no shots fired and just
somehow-or-other this madman will see the sense of backing down
and we don't have to send them into action. I really do.
Hello. What's your name?
AUDIENCE MEMBER:
Sonia.
PRIME MINISTER:
Hi Sonia.
AUDIENCE MEMBER:
Nice to meet you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Very nice to meet you. Have you been here before, to one of these?
AUDIENCE:
Not one of these. My friends came yesterday.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yesterday, you must love it. It is a good programme. She does a
terrific job. She really does.
KENNERLEY:
Ok, Mr Howard, talking about the republic, in terms of the republic,
were you surprised at the number of your Party colleagues who were
supporting a republic.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I have known that for a long time. Look, it is one of these
things that, sort of, defies Party lines and so-forth. I mean, I
am not. I just think that the present system works pretty well but
the public will decide it. I don't think, out there, people
are thinking about it a lot...
KENNERLEY:
One of the issues are....
PRIME MINISTER:
People are far more interested in fixing the taxation system and
far more interested in the mortgage interest rates and all those
sorts of things. They are the things that really matter to people.
KENNERLEY:
Ok, and we will get to those. But may I ask one question, we are
now going to have a referendum. It has now been decided as part
of the republican movement that a president will be elected by the
politicians. I think a few crumbs get thrown to the public, we nominate
a few people, but politicians decide. What will the differences
in power between a president, who is elected by a politician, and
the current Governor-General, will the position, literally, just
be a ribbon cutter?
PRIME MINISTER:
The aim is that it will be essentially the same...
KENNERLEY:
But the Governor-General can fire the Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, but only in very unusual circumstances.
KENNERLEY:
But will those powers still remain?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, that is the idea. That's the purpose of this. I mean
the idea is that you, instead of having a Governor-General, you
will have a President and at the moment the Governor-General is
the defacto Head-of-State but the legal Head-of-State is the Queen
and the idea of the referendum is that you remove the Queen altogether
and you have a President who exercises the same powers as the Governor-General
does. That is the idea.
KENNERLEY:
Ok, let's move on to the waterfront, I know it is a, sort
of, slight left turn here, that has escalated those problems this
morning. It has also been suggested this morning that Peter Reith
may in fact employ some of the same rules Bob Hawke applied during
the pilot strike, he basically busted the union, sacked the pilots,
sacked the union. Will Peter Reith, will John Howard sack the wharfies?
PRIME MINISTER:
The purpose of this is one thing and one thing alone and that is
to generate more jobs for Australians. The reason we want a better
waterfront is not to bash up a union, that's not the purpose.
I have got no argument with unions as such, I just want a more efficient
waterfront.
KENNERLEY:
How will you get that result?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you will get a more efficient waterfront if you have more
competition and you have lower costs on the waterfront and it means
we can sell more abroad and if we can sell more abroad...
KENNERLEY:
The wharfies disagree. They don't like your ideas.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they are wrong. I mean every study has shown that large parts
of our wharf operations are highly inefficient.
KENNERLEY:
They may be wrong but they are still standing firm. What will you
do?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we will continue to do what we have done now and that is create
a law that allows competition and I admire what the farmers of Australia
are doing. The farmers of Australia have set up a company that has
gone into competition and they will employ non-union labour and
that is how it should be. Until now, if you are not a unionist,
you can't get a job on the Australian waterfront, full stop.
Now that is wrong.
KENNERLEY:
But you know the wharfies aren't going to play ball with you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there comes a point when the Australia population will not
accept something that is unreasonable. Now, we are dealing here
with highly paid people. I mean these are not the battlers of the
trade union movement. Many of them earn $100,000 a year. They are
not battlers. They are the elite of the trade union movement and
they have privileges that battlers in the trade union movement elsewhere
in Australian don't have. And we want lower costs on the wharves
so our exporters can do more business overseas and employ more Australians.
Now that is what it is all about.
KENNERLEY:
So you don't think they will be sacked like the pilots were
sacked?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I am not taking any sort of analogy from anybody else. I
mean we changed the law to allow non-union labour onto the waterfront
and we have now got a farmer owned company that is going into business
and going into competition with existing stevedores. Now that is
terrific. It is like anybody opening up a new business and if they
can provide competition, get the prices down, we all benefit and
there are more jobs.
KENNERLEY:
Interesting, the fact that your favourite movie is On the Waterfront.
PRIME MINISTER:
It was a great movie. I thought Rod Steiger and Marlon Brando,
they were a great combination in that. There are some great lines
in that movie.
KENNERLEY:
"I could have been a contender", that's the famous...
PRIME MINISTER:
"I could have gone somewhere, I could have been something
and you said no we are going for a price on Wilson and I had to
take a dive", that's what he said. It was a great movie.
KENNERLEY:
You do a better impression than that at parties, I am sure.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I better not chance my arm.
KENNERLEY:
An election. Predicting an election. I guess today, on Midday
live, you are not going to tell us what the election date is going
to be?
PRIME MINISTER:
No.
KENNERLEY:
A girl has got to try.
PRIME MINISTER:
She has. It will be sometime.
KENNERLEY:
Spoken like a good politician.
PRIME MINISTER:
The right time. It is not due until March of next year and I....
KENNERLEY:
The sort of factors you have got to think about when you are figuring
out a judgement on an election date - and I would just like to bring
this in, so you can figure this into the calculations when you are
trying to determine a date - numerologically speaking, according
to Henry Conlon, we asked him to do your numbers, Mr Howard, and
do you know the last couple of years have been a pinnacle 11 for
you, a fabulous cycle.
PRIME MINISTER:
Eleven.
KENNERLEY:
The best, you can't get any better than that.
PRIME MINISTER:
Out of ten.
KENNERLEY:
I think it goes 1 to eleven, but it has been a great cycle for
the last few years for you and, in fact, this very year you are
in, is a year 6, which means it could be very good for an election,
for you, John Howard. In fact Bob Hawke won his 83 Election
in his year 6, so does that give you more confidence?
PRIME MINISTER:
Very interesting factor that. Very, I hadn't taken that, that's
a very interesting piece of research. I will keep that in mind.
KENNERLEY:
Oh, we have actually got the whole chart here.
PRIME MINISTER:
The whole book?
KENNERLEY:
I have got the whole...
PRIME MINISTER:
Can you slip me a copy?
KENNERLEY:
This is John Winston Howard's numerological chart. I'll
hand this along to you. Not a problem.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
KENNERLEY:
And when the election date is called, hey, you heard it here first.
It could be this year?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'll take the sheet, yes.
KENNERLEY:
GST, we must pass by quickly, Mr Costello is out selling the GST.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, he is out selling lower tax. I mean this whole tax reform is
about having a fairer tax system. Do you know at the moment we all
have a family car and you pay 22 per cent sales tax on a family
car but if any of you could afford to buy a lear jet, which I can't,
and wonder whether any of you can, I don't think so, you don't
pay any sales tax on that but you pay 22 per cent on a family car.
KENNERLEY:
But it was so tough for John Hewson to sell it, he didn't
do it...
PRIME MINISTER:
Forget about, with due respect to my former leader, that's
history.
KENNERLEY:
If Mr Costello doesn't sell it well, who gets the blame?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we are going to sell lower taxation and a fairer taxation
system, very well indeed, because it is not about a broad-based
indirect tax, it is about making the whole system fairer and better.
And that includes, it must include, significant reductions in personal
income tax because if we don't fix it by the year 2000, the
average person, on average weekly earnings, is going to be paying
47 per cent at their margin on their weekly income and that is ridiculous,
absolutely ridiculous.
KENNERLEY:
Your other passion is cricket, yesterday Cheryl Kernot was on,
in her capacity as patron of women's cricket, you know Australian
girls, the Australian Women's Cricket team are World Champs.
PRIME MINISTER:
They are. I met them after they, in fact the first day of the Test
in Sydney, I had the opportunity of meeting them all and I can also
say that I have got the rare distinction that the captain of the
Australian Women's Team.
KENNERLEY:
Belinda Clarke.
PRIME MINISTER:
Belinda Clarke, and the Captain of the Australian team, Mark Taylor,
they both live in my electorate and I really feel particularly privileged
and I think it is a marvellous coincidence, given the passion I
have for cricket.
KENNERLEY:
When Cheryl was with us yesterday, I asked her if she had a question
she'd like to address to you. So if you would observe.
Kernot:
I would like to know if he is going to invite the women cricketers
to the Lodge, the way he invites the men cricketers to the Lodge?
Kennerly:
Good point I will bring that up.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, of course.
KENNERLEY:
Of course. Do you have a date?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have got to wait and see their programme for the season and they
have got a tour going to, I think, England and Ireland. Look I would
love to do that and there are a number of other women's teams
that I also want to honour, the hockey, the netball and the women's
sporting achievements in Australia are just, they have broadened
and soared, over the last few years and I think that is terrific.
KENNERLEY:
So the women's team will be coming to the Lodge for a reception.
PRIME MINISTER:
Or Kirribilli. Whichever suits them most.
KENNERLEY:
Okay, delight to have you with us, Mr Howard. We thank you very
much for taking so much time and, audience, I hope you have enjoyed
that.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[Ends]
Thank you.
[Ends]