E&OE.............................................
PRESENTER:
We're joined in the studio this morning by the Prime Minister
of Australia, John Howard. Good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning, very nice to be with you again.
PRESENTER:
You've had a busy round already, haven't you, last night,
with meetings with Bill Gates.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, and the big announcement on Sunday, that Australians will
be able to buy the remaining two thirds of Telstra. Gates is an
interesting figure.
PRESENTER:
You could have knocked that off... you could have done that deal
last night.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, you could have except that the mums and dads wouldn't
have got a look in if I had have done a deal with him so I didn't.
PRESENTER:
Is it true that you brought forward this Telstra announcement, that
you wanted to make this release some time in April but you brought
it forward for the conference?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no that's not true. I have been thinking for a few weeks
that it would be a good idea to announce that Australians could
buy the remaining two thirds and I decided late last week that it
would be a good idea to do it at the weekend. It was the right forum,
the right atmosphere and it has been very well received, not only
by the media but more importantly, by the Australian public.
PRESENTER:
Unfortunately now the media, Prime Minister, is printing headlines
such as "election race on for PM", cynical souls that
they are.
PRIME MINISTER:
They are indeed. Why do you do it?
PRESENTER:
I've got no idea why they do it because if you look at it,
we've been talking about whether there's going to be an
election for about the last six months, six or eight months and
I guess a lot of Australians would say, hang on, we just had one,
didn't we...
PRIME MINISTER:
That's right. That's not my fault. As far as I am concerned,
I would be very happy if we went the full three years and the only
thing that will stop us going the full three years is the necessity
to have a double dissolution if some important legislation can't
be got through the Senate.
PRESENTER:
Such as?
PRIME MINISTER:
Such as the native title legislation, for example. Possibly indeed
the legislation on Telstra. It depends how speedily it is dealt
with by the Senate.
PRESENTER:
So you would reject any sort of media speculation that says this
is, the release of this Telstra policy is putting yourself right
in election mode?
PRIME MINISTER:
No it's not. It's obviously a good policy and it's
a conjunction of good policy and naturally, responding to the aspirations
of the people. People have demonstrated by their response to the
first one third sale that they like the idea of spreading ownership.
We've got 600 000 Australians for the first time in their lives
who bought shares in that float.
PRESENTER:
That's a terrific figure.
PRIME MINISTER:
92 per cent of the workers at Telstra, despite what the union says.
The union might get up and say it's a shocking thing but 92
per cent of the union members voted with their dollars to buy shares
in the company.
PRESENTER:
Did you run this through some polling before you...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, we did not. We did not run it through polling and I make that
point. The decision was based on good policy and my own instinct
that it's something that the Australian public would support.
The other point I do want to make is that on this occasion, as in
the past, there will be a special deal for Telstra employees. I
want to make that clear that just as in the first one third sale,
the employees got a special deal. I can say to those employees again
today on behalf of the Government that when we float off the remaining
two thirds, once again the workers of Telstra will get a special
deal.
PRESENTER:
The workers who work at Telstra now or the workers that are working
at Telstra at the time that the float is on?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the people who will be employed at the time the float is
on.
PRESENTER:
Without everybody getting too excited, this Telstra bill would have
to be rejected twice by the Senate, would it not?
PRIME MINISTER:
To be a double dissolution trigger? Yes, yes it would. Now I am
not looking for that to happen. I just hope that the Senate will
pass it and I am optimistic. I am a positive bloke. I will assume
that they are going to pass it because it makes such overwhelming
good sense.
PRESENTER:
Did you have other representations from another phone company at
the Liberal Conference with regard to a major shareholder in Optus,
and does this indicate to us that maybe the Optus float will be
brought forward?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that is a matter for Optus. I don't govern that. Did
I have representations? Well I certainly met the Managing Director
of that company. I met him at breakfast on Saturday morning but
I certainly didn't discuss this issue with him. I didn't
discuss this issue with any people in the corporate world before
I made the announcement. I discussed it with my colleagues and I
spoke to Senator Harradine a few minutes before I made the announcement.
I certainly didn't canvass it with any of Telstra's rivals
or competitors. That wouldn't have been proper.
PRESENTER:
You must have been busy, with all the lobbying going on at that
conference though? Didn't you not have an hour's quiet
chat with Lachlan Murdoch?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I did. He was there. He came to see me and had a talk to me
about matters relating to digital television and so forth.
PRESENTER:
Then you had chats....
PRIME MINISTER:
Can I say, there is always a lot of mystery seen by some people
in the media when a Prime Minister talks to a media proprietor.
I don't disguise the fact that from time to time I will talk
to Kerry Packer or Rupert Murdoch or the head of Fairfax, Bob Muscat,
and others. Of course I talk to them on a regular basis, but not
all that regular, from time to time. When they have a desire to
talk to me I will do so. There's nothing sinister about that.
PRESENTER:
How does the Editor of the Camberwell Progress Press go when he
tries to get through to you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I actually talk to a lot of them when I go around the country.
For example, I will be going into Fran Bailey's electorate
of McEwen tomorrow and I will certainly spend time talking to local
newspapers there. I make a particular point whenever I visit country
or regional Australia of talking to local newspaper editors. I think
that is part of the process.
PRESENTER:
You must feel like the prettiest girl at the ball at the moment
because there was Lachlan Murdoch last weekend and Kerry and his
business partner in digital television, Bill Gates. Did they sidle
up for a bit of a chat, did they want a dance last night?
PRIME MINISTER:
I wouldn't quite put it like that but the conversation was
animated and amiable.
PRESENTER:
And was it about the subject of digital television at all?
PRIME MINISTER:
Only fleetingly last night, fleetingly. It got a mention.
PRESENTER:
Is there a dollar in this for us as taxpayers?
PRIME MINISTER:
What's this?
PRESENTER:
This digital television?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think there's better programming.
PRESENTER:
But is there a dollar in it for us? Would the Government sell,
are you going to sell it or are you...
PRIME MINISTER:
We've got to decide how we're going to do that. There
are various aspects to it. There's broadcasting and data casting
and so forth. I think the decision that we will ultimately make
will be one that is a fair, balanced one that does take account
of the public interest as well as recognising that in relation to
digital television there are costs involved and there are other
policies to be met and honoured but we will get the decision in
the right focus.
PRESENTER:
Tell us, you have managed with, well not you, but with the Cheryl
Kernot episode of late last week and now Telstra, the Senator Parer
issue seems to have disappeared at least for the short term. Leaving
aside the issues of debating, whether he did the wrong thing, all
that sort of stuff, at the end of the day, do you, with these Ministers
feel a bit let down personally? You know, when you shut the door
of The Lodge at night, do you ever ring up a Senator Parer and say,
look, what do you think you are doing? Me, I've got to go out
in the trenches again and defend you up hill and down dale. What
are you doing owning coal shares as a Resources Minister? Do you
ever feel let down by these people?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well certainly, I can't answer that question without it being
seen in the context of Warwick Parer. I don't feel let down
by him. I don't believe he has done anything wrong. I know
him very well. I know all my Ministers well but I have known Warwick
particularly well for a number of years. He's been a very successful
businessman. He knows the resources industry better than any person
in Parliament, better than any person in Parliament, therefore I
think he ought to be the Minister for Resources. I think most of
your listeners would think that's a damn good idea as well.
I don't feel let down by him because I don't think he
did anything wrong. I don't believe there's any conflict
of interest so in his case the answer is no. Are you saying to me
that over the time that I have been Prime Minister I haven't
had frustrations about anything? Of course I have but not on that.
PRESENTER:
Do you feel let down by the other seven that you had to retire from
their positions?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look, that's history now, history.
PRESENTER:
You were a solicitor. I was once before I decided to go straight,
I was one. I read the Guidelines and I can hold them upside down
and sideways and try and read through a bit of paper even backwards
and I still don't see how Senator Parer has complied with the
Guidelines?
PRIME MINISTER:
But at the end of the day they are guidelines, they are not a death
sentence and you do have to look at the totality of his behaviour
and there was no actual conflict of interest. Nobody has been able
to say Warwick Parer made a decision that advantaged a company in
which he or his family had a direct or indirect interest and as
a result of that, he was enriched. Nobody has been able to ... and
if they had been able to do that, that's a different matter.
PRESENTER:
Let's take a break, if you don't mind, Prime Minister.
When we come back in just a moment we might address the old subject
of tax and GST.
PRIME MINISTER:
Please do.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PRESENTER:
Prime Minister, tax.. You want to reform taxation.
PRIME MINISTER:
We do. We want to make it a fairer system.
PRESENTER:
And are you offering us, when we discuss taxes we always think that
last time tax came up on the agenda the country was offered a tax
and anybody who wants to offer you a new tax seems like they're
crazy.
PRIME MINISTER:
We're going to offer people a fairer taxation arrangement.
We obviously have to look at the introduction of a broad based indirect
tax which would replace existing indirect taxes. Part of the deal
would be a reduction in personal income tax with a particular emphasis
on reducing income tax on families. We want to make the tax system
in Australia one that encourages Australian companies to export
more and invest. One of the weaknesses of the present system is
that it really penalises exporters.
PRESENTER:
You are going to set yourself the target, are you not, of selling
this to the Australian people. I am guessing what is inside your
mind. You are going to say, what happened last time, but a different
bloke is in charge this time, it is going to happen this time. We
are going to make it happen. Can we just, this is not an ambush
but can we ask you to put on your headphones. We just want to play
you something you might recognise from a few years back. It involves
Mike Willesee and Dr John Hewson. Do you want to have a listen to
this.
WILLESEE:
Can I just ask you a simple question as an example of this. If
I buy a birthday cake from a cake shop and GST is in place, do I
pay more or less for that birthday cake?
HEWSON:
It will depend whether cakes today in that shop are subject to
sales tax or they're not.
PRESENTER:
Just because somebody else does it, Prime Minister, we want to be
the first kids on the block here today with you on this St Patrick's
Day, we want to be the first, we are going to fire the first cake
of this election campaign. There you go, a cake-frosted GST. How
do you cut the cake?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am going to cut the cake in a way that gives all Australians except
the cheats a bigger slice. That is how I am going to cut it. All
Australians except the cheats will get a bigger slice of my tax
cut cake.
PRESENTER:
Do you set yourself a challenge, as proud as you are and as political
an animal as you are, which is not meant as an insult, have you
set yourself a challenge in your head. No. I am going to do it properly.
I am going to sell this policy properly.
PRIME MINISTER:
I certainly have. And I am.
PRESENTER:
So you will look at those mistakes of 93 and say, well, cakes
and so forth I am not falling for?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am not going to spend too much time looking at 93 because
that's five years ago and one shouldn't assume that what
I am going to put forward is the same as what John Hewson put forward.
We haven't finally decided what we are going to put forward.
We're working on it and no final decisions have been taken
although we have done an enormous amount of work, but nobody should
start comparing what we're proposing with what was proposed
in the past. I am very committed to taxation reform. The Australian
public sees the present system as unfair and increasingly unworkable
and they want the Government to have a go. The Labor Party just
wants to knock it and stop it and block it and impede it. Now that's
a very negative backward looking attitude. Mr Beazley opposes every
single thing I talk about.
PRESENTER:
How many cakes are you going to see between now and October?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't eat them very often and I don't think you will
see too many.
PRESENTER:
You've got no quarrel with October then?
PRIME MINISTER:
No particular meaning with October but don't indulge yourself
in trick questions. I mean, Gary Gray says it's the fourth
of July so you're saying it's October, are you?
PRESENTER:
Speaking of the fourth of July, the Gulf War, now when are these
chaps of ours coming home. There are only so many short black coffees
they can drink.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they will come home when we make the decision that it's
no longer in the interests of maintaining pressure on Saddam Hussein
for them to remain there. It's too early yet. I hope they're
not there and they won't be there indefinitely but they were
sent there as part of an allied effort to put pressure on him and
it appears thus far to have worked and to have worked magnificently.
There's no doubt that he would never have buckled if he has
buckled, and we don't know that for sure yet. He would never
have buckled if there hadn't been the threat that force would
be used. And it was the determination of the Americans and the British
and ourselves and others that have forced him at least at this stage
to allow something that he was previously refusing.
PRESENTER:
We old cynics in the media, you don't think there might be
a bit of an itchy finger on the trigger in the United States at
the moment given the problems the President of the United States
is having with all his lovers coming out and talking about him?
PRIME MINISTER:
I can't fault his handling of this issue. He has behaved correctly
and strongly and the American leadership on this issue is what has
made it possible for the inspections to resume and if ultimately,
it leads to the discovery of weapons of mass destruction and their
destruction, then it will have been principally because of what
the Americans and what President Clinton has done, so the answer
is no.
PRESENTER:
What do you think when you've got a cup of tea in your hand
and you've got the slippers on at 10.30 and you watch the late
news and the latest revelations come out about the President?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't really want to...
PRESENTER:
Do you think to yourself, at least I am answering questions about
Senator Parer's coal shares, I'm not having the Grand
Jury come around and visit...
PRIME MINISTER:
My own dealings with Bill Clinton have been highly professional.
PRESENTER:
Do you feel embarrassed for him?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I regard him as a very competent President and a very successful
politician The question of personal issues is not one that I care
to comment on in any way. I really don't. I just don't
want to get into that, I'm not interested in it. I don't think
the private lives of politicians have got any face in public debate.
PRESENTER:
If you were seeing him at the moment, would you mention it in conversation
briefly, say look, I'm sorry you're having your problems?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am not seeing him at the moment. Good try, but I just don't
want to comment on that.
PRESENTER:
Tell us, there has been speculation for a fair old while about
the nature of your relationship with Jeff Kennett as to how well
you get on. Could I put it this way. If you were in a balloon with
Pauline Hanson and Jeff Kennett and you started to lose altitude,
who would go out first?
PRIME MINISTER:
It wouldn't be Jeff.
PRESENTER:
He is heavier than Pauline. Assume he's had a haircut. Do you
get on, I mean..
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, there's always a bit of banter between I guess Federal
and State Liberal leaders. We had some differences in the past.
People know that but I have found, particularly over the last year
that we worked together very well. I saw him last night. He was
at the Gates dinner, the World Economic Forum dinner here in Melbourne
and Jeff and I have got a good working relationship. We've
got some style differences. Neither of us try to disguise that and
there's no point in doing so but we both want similar goals.
His views on most political issues in fact are much closer to mine
than the views of some other Liberal leaders around the country.
He has similar views about small business and fixing up the industrial
relations system and the role of Government in the community. His
sporting pursuits are a little different from mine but not dramatically
so.
PRESENTER:
Is this the first time, you mentioned Gates just then, is this the
first time a world business leader has been invited to address a
Cabinet meeting as such, and why is he addressing Cabinet?
PRIME MINISTER:
It's certainly not the first time a business leader has. There's
a bit of mythology about that. Past governments of which I have
been a member often sat, Cabinet sub committees have had large groups
of Australian businessmen in the Cabinet room for discussions. The
Hawke and Keating Governments did that. There's nothing really
new about it. I don't think there's, you know, we should
adopt this sort of sacrosanct attitude to a meeting of Cabinet.
If there is somebody who has got something relevant to say about
Australia's future or the world's future and it's
appropriate that that person talk to the Prime Minister and the
members of a Cabinet, then that person ought to be invited in. I