CASSIDY:
Presumably Cabinet has had a good look at the Queensland result. How are you going to stop the Hanson juggernaut?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't dismiss what happened on Saturday, nor do I get overwhelmed by it. You don't dismiss it by panicking. You don't react by panicking. What you do is to analyse what's happened, understand why it has happened and I think the major reason the vote happened in Queensland at the weekend is that sense of vulnerability that a lot of Australians feel at a time of economic and social change. You sort the wheat from the chaff as far as the explanations are concerned, and the last thing you do is allow what happened on Saturday to divert you from things that you believe are good for the future of Australia. Now, if you really want that steamroller' - to borrow somebody's expression - to roll on, treat it as though it has the capacity to divert you from your chosen course. I mean, I think that would be, in political terms, that would be a big mistake.
CASSIDY:
If you don't change course though, what can you do to ease those concerns?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think those concerns are built on the inevitable vulnerability that a lot of people feel at a time of economic change. I think there's also a message about the style of politics in Australia. I think many people on Saturday didn't so much vote for One Nation as vote against what they regard as a political establishment, and I think all of us in the major parties can have a look at that. I think the Canberra-based media can have a look at that as well. I think perhaps the style of debate in Parliament with the confrontation at Question Time alienates a lot of Australians. They have the impression when they see that on television that we spend our time point-scoring, rather than looking after their concerns and attending to their problems. And I think that is a message that all of us, in both the Government and the Opposition, ought to absorb.
CASSIDY:
Prime Minister, you say you won't be changing direction. Let's look at some of the issues that are causing concern for One Nation supporters. Telstra, the full privatisation will go ahead?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the research that we did at the weekend did not indicate that that was one of the major areas of concern.
CASSIDY:
It is of concern to some of your own backbenchers... some of the National Party....?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you base.... well, our policy on Telstra remains because....
CASSIDY:
Full privatisation?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, can I say to people in rural Australia that one of the great advantages of the full privatisation of Telstra is that we'll be able to massively reduce Australia's debt and taking Australia debt free virtually into the 21st Century will be a huge boon for this country.
CASSIDY:
But reduce their services in the process. That's what worries them.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, their services won't be reduced. And I think they will find that when the full details of the policies come out that their services so far from being reduced, their services will be greatly strengthened.
CASSIDY:
So tax reform. And you say that there can't be meaningful tax reform without a GST. Full steam ahead?
PRIME MINISTER:
Full steam ahead on tax reform. And when you talk about a Goods and Services Tax, there is no way that my Government will ever introduce a Goods and Services Tax on top of the existing indirect tax system. It would only be introduced as a replacement for existing indirect taxes and in company with reductions in personal income tax. In other words it's a package. You don't have a GST on top of the existing taxes. You have a GST replacing some of them, accompanied by reductions in personal income tax and that will be of enormous benefit to our export industries and it will generate jobs in our export industries because it will take the tax off the inputs of the goods that are exported overseas.
CASSIDY:
I saw a reference this morning to a peoples' convention on tax reform after the election. Is that being seriously considered?
PRIME MINISTER:
No.
CASSIDY:
Go to the election now and the likelihood of a double dissolution. Before Saturday you said it was a fifty-fifty proposition. What is it now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the situation hasn't changed.
CASSIDY:
So even though you've looked at the likely consequences now, you know the reality of it, the likely consequences of what that means in the Senate, the reality hasn't changed. It's still a fifty-fifty proposition?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the reality of the option hasn't changed, Barrie, and I mean, part of not over-reacting to Saturday is to understand that, for example, in the last South Australian State election, the Australian Democrats polled 16.4% of the primary vote. Now, One Nation polled 23% - now there's a 7% difference - but 16.4% is still significant. It is not completely unknown in Australian politics for that kind of vote to be attracted in the State election. What is different of course on this occasion, because of where the vote came from, One Nation is going to win ten seats in the Queensland Parliament. Now, I think what has now happened is that they are on the field and like every other political party and like every other political leader, Mrs Hanson is now a full-blown politician and her policies have to subject to scrutiny like mine are and Mr Beazley's are and it won't be enough for her and her followers to merely go around saying they want us to listen, or go around saying they love Australia. We all love Australia. I love Australia too. I love Australia as deeply as any other person in public life but now that they are a party in a Parliament, their policies will have to be subject to scrutiny and examination like ours are. And I think that will, over time, reveal that many of those policies if implemented would actually cost jobs and damage people in rural and regional Australia.
CASSIDY:
Prime Minister, ten seats in the Queensland Parliament would translate to about three Senate seats. How will that effect the Wik Bill?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'd be amazed if, after what I have heard from One Nation that they would oppose us on Wik, but Barrie you are making the assumption....
CASSIDY:
Well they will Prime Minister, they've already said that your Bill does not go far enough.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there is no way we are going to take it any further, and they won't enlist the support of the Labor Party or the Democrats if they were in the Senate to take it further, so where do they go? Indeed, on that particular issue, their influence would be negligible.
CASSIDY:
But your Bill is a compromise by definition, in other words...
PRIME MINISTER:
But it is a fair compromise.
CASSIDY:
But if it was your call alone it would be a different Bill, that is what that implies.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there's no way that a future Government that I lead would be amenable to altering that Bill. Now that Bill is
CASSIDY:
You wouldn't be tempted to wipe out Native Title altogether.
PRIME MINISTER:
Certainly not.
CASSIDY:
Why not? What is the big risk to the Commonwealth by doing that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, billions of dollars of compensation.
CASSIDY:
And is that the only question that....?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it is also a question of equity. I mean my Bill is a fair compromise. It protects the farmers and the miners, and it also respects Native Title. And I remain amazed that the Labor Party and Senator Harradine and the Australian Democrats won't pass it. If they are worried about the outcome of a double dissolution, and the possible entry of One Nation Senators, they ought to pass the Bill.
CASSIDY:
Senator Harradine says that it's you that should be looking at the make-up of the next Senate.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, let's look at what is causing the problem at the moment. And what is causing the problem at the moment is the refusal of the Labor Party and others in the Senate to pass a decent, fair compromise Bill. Now you've just built a very good case over the last couple of minutes to demonstrate that where I sit on Native Title is a fair and balanced position. You are saying that One Nation's over here, the Labor Party is over here, that means that we must be sitting fairly and squarely in a decent position. Now, in those circumstances I would think the great majority of the Australian people would want that Bill passed. Now if that Bill were passed, then of course the immediate reason for a double dissolution would be removed.
CASSIDY:
On One Nation preferences did you spend much time on that at the Cabinet meeting today?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, that was discussed briefly, but....
CASSIDY:
And what was the outcome? What will you do at the next Federal Election?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, well, the Federal Cabinet doesn't decide that, our party organisation decides it. I think that what will happen is that some State branches will put One Nation last in all seats, others will probably do so in a number of seats, but perhaps not in others.
CASSIDY:
So it will be a branch by branch situation.
PRIME MINISTER:
That is always the case with the Liberal Party. I mean what must be understood is that under our Constitution, our State branches have far more power than in the Labor Party. The National Executive in the Liberal Party has no power to direct State branches and they traditionally exert their independence on matters relating to pre-selections, and preferences. They do so very defiantly I might say.
CASSIDY:
Your Queensland President, Bob Carroll, still insists that putting Labor last was the right strategy. Do you agree with him?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that was their decision.
CASSIDY:
Do you agree with it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'll tell you what a lot of Liberals would have been surprised if out of a preference decision last Saturday you may have ended up with a Labor Party with a guaranteed fifty, or fifty-four seats, which may indeed have been the result if a different approach had been taken. Now they are the sort of things to be taken into account with these considerations.
CASSIDY:
If that was the right strategy, of course, to maximise the damage to the enemy you've certainly done that, but you've paid a high price for it. The Liberal Party has paid a high price, you're down to about eight seats.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, Barrie, you ought to understand though that the information available to us long before the preference decision was taken was that the State Liberal Party was doing poorly in the Brisbane area, and I think it's a little simplistic and glib to say that that was entirely due to the preference decision.
CASSIDY:
So, so you're saying that really the Party had no choice that they were on a hiding to nothing anyway?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I wasn't saying that, I was simply saying that the assumption that the drift in the Liberal Party vote to the Labor Party in Brisbane was entirely due to the preference decision is not necessarily correct.
CASSIDY:
What else, what else was driving it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there could have been other reasons, it's clearly ....
CASSIDY:
What do you believe they were ...?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they may have been related to a public view about the Government. I don't know. There are a whole combination of reasons why people might vote against one party, and in favour of another.
CASSIDY:
Prime Minister you've been around politics a long time, you've seen it all, how did you get it so wrong? How did you so badly underestimate Pauline Hanson's support?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't think I did get it so wrong. It is a fact of modern political life in western countries that you do get, from time to time, people coming along offering easy, simplistic solutions....
CASSIDY:
But, you did say she would have disappeared by now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that was a view that I held at the time.
CASSIDY:
And my question was, how did you get it so wrong? For somebody who is so experienced as yourself?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Barrie, I think there are a combination of reasons as to why Saturday happened, I don't think you can assume that it will automatically be translated into a federal result, I really don't. I think you often get, as South Australia demonstrated, a strong showing by a minority party in a State election, which doesn't automatically transfer federally. In a federal election campaign the issues are more keenly fought over, in a federal election campaign policy is a much stronger component and I think in those circumstances the opportunities are less for a party like One Nation to do well.
CASSIDY:
So they'll have some presence outside of Queensland at the federal election. Will One Nation be around ten years from now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look Barrie, I don't know. I really don't. I do know this though, that any party worth its salt listens to what the public says through the ballot box and I certainly don't dismiss what happened on Saturday, but equally that same party if it is worth its salt, continues to do the things that it believes is right for Australia. Now, if I believed last Friday that it was right that Australia have a new fairer taxation system, I would be a fairly hopeless, weak Prime Minister and leader if the course of what happened at the weekend, I suddenly decided tonight that it is no longer in the interests of my country that we have a fairer, better taxation system, that would be the antithesis of political leadership.
CASSIDY:
Prime Minister we will have to leave it there, thank you very for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Pleasure.