E&OE....................................................................................................
Long ago, my next guest decided that he wanted to be a writer.
Somehow he ended up a lawyer, he hasn't practiced for many
years. At High School, he failed maths and yet somehow became the
Federal Treasurer. His passion has always been cricket, yet the
best he could ever do was get 6 wickets for 56 for a Methodist Church
side against the Catholics at the local park. Now despite all those
setbacks he was probably enough of a cock-eyed optimist to believe
that he has had a fortunate life. Would you please welcome John
Howard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Are you spilling my bowling average again are you?
RAY MARTIN:
Oh I'm sorry, I want to see the results of that too. But I
just thought I might show you today's Sydney Morning Herald,
this morning's, it's got a plug for you on this programme
tonight with a photograph. I just want to clear this up. It says
"I bet you a million bucks the words tax plan get a guernsey
tonight". Now, can we get a commitment that they won't?
We might split the million bucks.
PRIME MINISTER:
We could share it with them.
RAY MARTIN:
Share it with everybody. Okay, a million dollars. Because you know
journalists can be trusted, and they can be taken at their word.
PRIME MINISTER:
Absolutely. It's always been my uniform experience.
RAY MARTIN:
Do journalists tell more lies than politicians?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh now that's one of those, to use the old language : Have
you stopped beating your wife?', sort of questions.
RAY MARTIN:
Was Graham Richardson honest when he said politicians lie?
PRIME MINISTER:
They don't all lie. Some do. Some don't. And there are
some honest ones on both sides, and my experience has been that
most people who go into public life are very dedicated, and not
all of them, but most of them are, and I've got to stick up
for the profession and say that they are unfairly maligned on a
lot of occasions and I've found a lot of dedicated people in
the Labor Party, and I've found a lot of dedicated people in
my Party. So I think we get a rough trot on occasions but I don't
expect any sympathy for that.
RAY MARTIN:
Well, Kim Beazley says...Well, you won't get any I'm
sure.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I won't get any.
RAY MARTIN:
Kim Beazley said here last week that he loves politics, he loves
the profession of politics.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I do too. That's why I've stayed in for 24 years.
If you didn't love it you'd run a hundred miles from it,
because it is so intensely personal, your activities get scrutinised,
criticised, dumped on, and you really do have to have a passion
for it to stay with it.
RAY MARTIN:
But you are probably hated, we mentioned journos. You are probably
hated, as much as journalists, if not more, and used car salesmen.
Why would you love something when people hate you?
PRIME MINISTER:
I guess there is a certain adrenalin in it, and can I say you do
get a buzz out of doing something that you think is good for the
country. Now, I think...
PRIME MINISTER:
It's sounds twee when people say that but...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it does sound... it does. But can I say that I felt tremendous,
although it was a tragic circumstance, but I felt tremendous about
getting that uniform gun ban, because I really felt that if I did
nothing more I would have made Australia a safer place particularly
for women and children.
RAY MARTIN:
I agree, I think you did. Do you still get to the mirror and shave
in the morning and say "Good morning Mr Prime Minister"?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I still scratch myself and wonder. I mean, it is a tremendous
... it is one of the terrific things about this country, I mean,
I had an ambition when I was young to go into public life, but it
is still possible if you pour your heart into something in this
country to get it. And it's not a country built on privilege
or wealth, which is one of the tremendous things about it, and makes
it different from any other country in the world and it really is
one of the things that makes it the most fantastic place in which
to live. It really is. I still have a great sense of excitement
that I had the privilege of becoming Prime Minister of this country.
RAY MARTIN:
But if someone shouts out Prime Minister, you now look around,
you don't look for someone else?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I've got to that. They often shout out other things too
but....
RAY MARTIN:
When was the last time you mowed the lawn or fixed a fuse?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, it would have been two-and-a-half years ago, just before I
became Prime Minister.
RAY MARTIN:
Really?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I used to mow the lawn quite regularly at our place in Wollstonecraft.
I wasn't too good on fuses, Janette is much better on fuses.
RAY MARTIN:
You said 15 years ago when you were leader of the Opposition, you
said, if I had to make the stark choice between politics and family,
I'd have no hesitation in putting the family first.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, that's right.
RAY MARTIN:
Have you been able to maintain that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I have. I mean, I'm very very lucky that I've got
an affectionate family. The best thing that has happened to me was
my family. I was lucky with my mother and father, they are long
dead, but I was very lucky with them and I was very lucky with the
woman I married and we've had three fantastic children and
I'm really just so grateful. I mean, I feel on occasions as
though I've almost had too much in life to have had that wonderful
family and also to have had the privilege of becoming Prime Minister.
You sort of feel a bit giddy with it. But I really have been very
lucky. My kids and my wife have been very supportive of me and they've
kept me going when I've sort of felt battered and bruised and
unwanted and they still do. They are the greatest people in the
world.
RAY MARTIN:
Well, did you face that choice when Janette had cancer?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, no. Like any other husband I was terrified when I found out
Janette had cancer.
RAY MARTIN:
Was that the scariest thing that's ever happened?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes. I mean, I was petrified. And I now know what millions of
my fellow countrymen and women go through. I mean, a lot of people
go through this experience but she's a tremendously gutsy person
with a wonderful spirit, and I mean, she never said well John you'll
have to give up politics.
RAY MARTIN:
But she'd say the opposite, she would ....
PRIME MINISTER:
Quite the reverse. It would have been the last thing that she would
have said but I mean, I was obviously distracted from anything else
for a few days.
RAY MARTIN:
Did you cry?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, of course I did. Of course I did. And so did my children,
of course. I mean, you would. You're human. She's the
most special person in the world to me and we got through it, and
she's got tremendous spirit and guts and determination and
it happens, it could happen to anybody. Anybody. I mean illness
has no ... it cuts a swathe through everybody and good health
is an asset....
RAY MARTIN:
But she would have known, as you knew, that you've spent at
least 20 years heading towards being Prime Minister. You've
got the job for three or four months and suddenly the crisis hits.
At that stage, you are not lucky are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, but I'm lucky that she's come through as well. And
we are all lucky that we were close, and when you have a crisis
like that, the thing you most need is the love and support of the
people nearest and dearest to you and that's what she had.
RAY MARTIN:
Was there a moment in those four or five days John in which you
thought, I have no choice, I really have to concentrate on her and
forget..
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh look of course there was. I really, for a period of time there
I was, it was very hard to focus on other things. I think people
understood that. Fortunately, the operation was successful and it
... it's really good now, and we are very grateful for the
hospital, it was a great, you know the King George V hospital in
Sydney, a very very fine hospital who did a fantastic job, and a
very good surgeon.
RAY MARTIN:
Is that a time that you feel regrets or even guilt about the fact
that all the time... almost like when you lose parents, all the
time you've spent away, all the time in Canberra, all the birthdays
you missed, all the sports events you didn't go to?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, believe it or not you can if you organise yourself properly,
you can still spend an enormous amount of time with your family
in politics. And I think it is a question of organising your time.
I gave myself a couple of golden rules when I went into Parliament.
One of them was that I would ring my family twice a day. One of
my colleagues at that time Peter Nixon, gave me that advice, and
I stuck to it and it worked.
RAY MARTIN:
Have you done it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I've really stuck to it, and Niko said to me, and he'd
entered Parliament at a very similar age and his children where
the same and I asked him for advice, and he said one of the things
that you ought to do is ring twice a day and he said if you say
you are going to be home for something, be there. Because what children
remember is when you don't turn up when you say you will turn
up. It's the disappointment that children remember rather than
the number of days that you may be home, or the number of nights,
but if you've promised a child that you are going to do something
and you don't do it, they remember that.
RAY MARTIN:
So you were there for all their births?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I was present for all of their births. Yes.
RAY MARTIN:
Tell me.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah I was.
RAY MARTIN:
I know but...
PRIME MINISTER:
It's true!
RAY MARTIN:
I don't doubt it.
PRIME MINISTER:
You know, I've asked.... Each of them would verify it.
RAY MARTIN:
The first one though. The birth of your daughter. I mean was that....
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh it was fantastic. It was a great experience. It's a huge
experience. I mean, I was a ... I guess it wasn't done so
frequently Melanie is now 24 then, as it is a commonplace
thing now, but because in my parents' age I mean....
RAY MARTIN:
The old man would have ....
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh he was a mile away. I mean, I remember, I sort of let slip to
my mother at the time that I'd done it, and she was sort of
horrified because when I was born, and I was the youngest in the
family, that sort of thing just didn't happen.
RAY MARTIN:
Was it love at first sight with you and Janette?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I was very struck, yes, I suppose you'd call it that.
I thought she was fantastic and we got married within one year.
RAY MARTIN:
What, no chance to let her shoot through?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I thought I was pretty lucky.
RAY MARTIN:
What was the attraction?
PRIME MINISTER:
She was very good looking and she had a great personality and we
got on like a house on fire.
RAY MARTIN:
Had she been a member of the Labor Party would you have married
her?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh I'd have converted her.
RAY MARTIN:
Hang on. You'd have converted her?
PRIME MINISTER:
She probably would have converted... no, that would never have
happened!! I don't think we would have. Janette's a very
very strong willed person and I'd have...
RAY MARTIN:
You've explained that... there was a headline here John,
I mean, obviously if she didn't .... You would be sitting
here as a member of the ALP today.
PRIME MINISTER:
No that would never happen.
RAY MARTIN:
All right simple question. Simple question. Have you ever been
drunk?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
RAY MARTIN:
You dropped your head then a bit.
PRIME MINISTER:
Not often, but I have. I have to confess I have, but...
RAY MARTIN:
Are you a good drunk or a bad drunk?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm a happy one.
RAY MARTIN:
You talk a lot about the family unit, about the average Australian
family. What is that John?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there's no one sort of numerical sequence in number
that's an average family. But I mean, people think of it as
Mum and Dad and children, but it is not just Mum and Dad. I mean,
there are a lot of people who experience broken marriages and relationships
and there are Mums left on their own or Dads left on their own to
bring up children. They are all families. I think it is the best
environment for children to be brought up is still a stable two
parent family where there is both a role model in the mother and
a role model in the father.
RAY MARTIN:
Does it matter if they are married?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it helps. I mean, I am a great believer in marriage. I'm
not a person who sort of lays down moral guidelines on other people
but I think there should always be a margin for marriage in our
community. I think the sense of public commitment between two people
adds to the sense of security and love and stability for the children.
RAY MARTIN:
We're reaching the stage of course where almost half the population
couples are not married.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that's not... that percentage is not as high where
there are children. There are a lot of people who marry when they
decide to have children. I think they see the extra public commitment
as being desirable and providing a greater sense of security. And
these things are questions of balance but the best thing you can
do for your children is to give them love and security and if there
is some kind of more formal commitment that often helps, but I accept
that unmarried parents can be very good and very loving.
RAY MARTIN:
If your daughter said Ralph and I are moving in together, we are
in love, we are not going to get married, we're living together
would you care?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I guess I'm of an age where I would think about it a
bit, but my love for her would be so great that if she were happy,
I'd be happy. I mean, I'd want for her to be happy. And
I mean...
RAY MARTIN:
And if Ralph....?
PRIME MINISTER:
Who is this Ralph?
RAY MARTIN:
Oh, you haven't heard of Ralph?
But if Ralph had an earring through his nose and tattoos and orange
hair....
PRIME MINISTER:
I think there's a fair possibility she wouldn't bring
him home.
RAY MARTIN:
Well, let's say what about if one of your two sons said, Dad
I'm moving in with Ralph. I'm gay.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, once again I'd be disappointed, and having sort of observed
them and who they bring home, I think it is very unlikely, but nonetheless....
But I would be disappointed, but that wouldn't stop me loving
them, or stop them...
RAY MARTIN:
Because their life would be a little more difficult.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think it is just a combination of circumstances.
RAY MARTIN:
How about those who say at the moment, you are a racist. Is there
anything worse than that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, those sort of comments have hurt me a lot. This is a criticism
that I should have said this or that about Mrs Hanson, this silly
idea that if I had made one definitive speech two years ago she
would have been knocked out of the ring and carried off and that
was the end of it is ridiculous.
RAY MARTIN:
But that tag racist, I mean, there's nothing really more offensive
is there?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, some people have said that, and I find that very offensive,
I mean, and other people come along and say look, you know, he's
not a racist but now that's ... that doesn't
fool me either.
RAY MARTIN:
You mentioned "when did you stop beating your wife" line
at the start. How do defend that? If someone comes along and says
....
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I suppose I can just hope that people understand that my,
the character of my life and the association that I've built
with people of all different races and backgrounds and the tolerance
that I practise. I mean what really matters is how you live your
life not a particular label that's put on you, but those sort
of labels can be hurtful and I have found that one, and still do,
deeply offensive because I don't have a racist bone in my body
and I do find that extraordinarily offensive and it is against everything
that I've always sort of believed about the equality of men.
RAY MARTIN:
Are you proud of the fact that you are almost on the other side
of the fence or the track from your standard Liberal Leader, the
fact you not only come from Sydney, which is unusual for the Liberal
Party, but also you didn't come from money, you didn't
come from old blue blood...
PRIME MINISTER:
And I'm the only Liberal Prime Minister of Australia to have
gone to a Government school.
RAY MARTIN:
Are you proud of that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I am. Not that I'm against independent schools. I've
sent my three children to independent schools at a secondary level.
I sent them to government schools at a primary level and I went
to a government high school in Sydney and I'm quite proud of
it, it was a good school, but I think there is a lot of very good
schools in the independent system and the ones we've sent our
kids to have been, we've been very happy with that education.
But I think what it demonstrates is that we have a, how the Liberal
Party is very, and I don't want to get political on a programme
like this but how the Liberal Party is quite diverse and different.
RAY MARTIN:
How about the cartoonists, the comedians, the columnists who have
been punching you up for 20 years. Do you listen to them, do you
take any note, does it hurt?
PRIME MINISTER: