E&OE....................................................
ZEMANEK:
A very good evening indeed. Welcome to the programme on this Wednesday
night. Yes, it is the 10th of June 1998 a day when the Prime Minister,
John Howard is here to chat with me and then take your calls as
well, so if you want to talk to the Prime Minister, and have your
say, now is the chance so listeners, your big chance, your opportunity
on the Sky Radio Network right around Australia tonight. And whether
you want to talk about the GST, Aboriginal Affairs, Immigration,
dole bludgers, nursing homes or any aspect of government policy,
it doesn't matter what it is. He'll even talk to you about
the St George Rugby League team as well. Heaps of things to talk
about so you can give us a call on 131332. I am pleased to say that
I have the Prime Minister here in the studio with me. John, it's
great to have you here.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it's very good to be back. I think it's the first
time as Prime Minister and once before in another job, but it's
great to be here. You've got a great programme and I'm
very happy to appear and to talk to you and answer your listeners.
ZEMANEK:
I guess when we look at this programme, we look at people who've
been out there all day, working very hard, want to come home and
have their say. They vent their spleens, spit the dummy, do whatever
it is that they do and they do it here on the night-time programme
and they get very aggravated with some of the politicians, with
some of the things that they do.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's fair enough and part of my job is to listen to
people and the first responsibility of a political leader is to
connect with the people that he aspires to lead to hear what they've
got to say, to communicate with them and listen to what they've
got to say, and if he agrees, say so, and if he doesn't, say
why and perhaps go away a little wiser as a result.
ZEMANEK:
Now is that political leader having a good time?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I am. It's tough on occasions....
ZEMANEK:
I mean it's all very well....yeah...
PRIME MINISTER:
But, it is still a job that gives you a tremendous experience and
there is an enormous buzz about the day-to-day responsibility and
the opportunity of meeting so many different Australians in so many
different parts of our country.
ZEMANEK:
I mean, when you were running up to the election and things like
that, and you've aspired to the job for so many years, a lot
of people get to that job, finally, after aspiring to it and then
it's a bit of a let down. I have to say that in the first six
months or so, it seemed to me it was a bit of a let down to you
because you seemed to be, I don't know, all over the place
there.
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm interested that you say that. I haven't felt as though
it was a let down, or it hasn't disappointed me. It's
hard on occasions. It's inspiring on other occasions. It's
frustrating on yet further occasions and exhilarating on still other
occasions and you experience all of those emotions but I think I
have achieved a number of things but there's still a lot of
other things I want to achieve. The best part of the job is talking
to so many different Australians in so many different parts of the
country.
ZEMANEK:
Would you rather win the election or see St George win the competition?
PRIME MINISTER:
That's very, very hard. I am of course,
ZEMANEK:
You're torn between the two I know.
PRIME MINISTER:
As well as being a follower, I'm the patron of that greatest
Rugby League club in the world and I of course....
ZEMANEK:
They've done well, haven't they?
PRIME MINISTER:
They have been tremendous this year. I think they're such
a team. I went to Mark Coyne's testimonial dinner a few weeks
ago and the quiet, purposeful teamwork of those blokes is tremendous
and they really are in with a great show this year. A bit of an
upset last weekend, I've got to say, but you need that in sport
as in politics occasionally to keep you on the mark.
ZEMANEK:
I guess you do. I guess everyone today is talking about interest
rates. Now, I suppose, I spoke to my bank manager this afternoon
and I couldn't get to him this afternoon because he'd
just been deluged with people ringing up about interest rates, are
they going to go up, are they going to go down, what is going to
happen. Are you going to try and put some pressure on the Reserve
Bank, because the Reserve Bank must be starting to wilt under the
pressure of the dollar going down?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm not going to talk about the future direction of
interest rates. It may disappoint you and your listeners, but generally
speaking it's unwise for Prime Ministers, particularly at a
time when the level of the dollar is in the news, to talk about
the future level. I can observe that interest rates now are lower
than what they were when we came into office, but I'm not going
to talk. I'll talk about most things tonight and I'll
be as candid as possible but in the current circumstances for me
to start expressing views about the future direction of interest
rates, or for the Treasurer to do it, or anybody else in senior
authority to do it is not wise and I'm not going to do it.
I hope you understand it. It's just a sense of responsibility
and what is appropriate. I'm not going to talk about that and
I'm not going to talk about the level of the dollar either.
I can talk about the strengths of the economy.
ZEMANEK:
Well, we must talk about the level of the dollar because, I mean,
it's under pressure. Where is it under pressure from? Why is
it under pressure? People are sitting home there tonight and saying,
well why is the dollar suddenly under pressure?
PRIME MINISTER:
Stan, I'm in the difficult position that I want to be very
candid with you but I also understand that the way the financial
markets operate and people never go to bed in the financial markets.
They're operating 24 hours a day all around the world and Prime
Ministers make the odd remark - it can be taken out of context,
it can be misunderstood, it can be well intentioned and it can then
be moulded by the financial markets as indicating something and
then transactions can occur off the back of that and this is just
not very helpful and I will, therefore, on that issue, have to say,
no, I will not comment. I'm sorry.
ZEMANEK:
No, okay. But are overseas money people putting pressure on the
Australian dollar by selling it short or what are they doing?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's just another way of asking the earlier question.
ZEMANEK:
I know.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good on you for trying, and you'll understand if I get the
elbow back and just tap the ball back along the wicket in true Geoffrey
Boycott style. Okay?
ZEMANEK:
Is that a polite way of saying no comment'?
PRIME MINISTER:
Indeed. It's a cricketing way of saying no comment'.
ZEMANEK:
This morning, Peter Costello said that the tax package is still
months away, but rumours circulating the business community suggest
that the details are going to be available on June 21st. Now ...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I can tell you, there's no particular date fixed, and
we are working on it and it will be ready soon. I'm not going
to put weeks or months on it but we are working on it. We need tax
reform in this country and we'll have it out and we'll
have all the details in front of people and they'll be able
to absorb it well before the election.
ZEMANEK:
All right. You've had a lot of pressure on you about the GST.
Is there any chance that we won't have a GST?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you can't have fundamental reform in Australia without
having a broad-based indirect tax. Some people call that a GST.
Some people call it a value added tax. Other people call it something
else, which I won't repeat tonight, but you do need, in this
country if you want decent tax reform, if you want a new system,
you can't leave the existing wholesale tax system where it
is. You've got to grab hold of it and replace it with a new
and fairer system that treats everybody equally. The present system
treats people unequally. I mean, neither you nor I can afford to
buy a Lear Jet but if we could, we wouldn't pay any wholesale
tax on it but we can both afford to buy a family car and we pay
22 per cent wholesale tax on that. You pay 12, 22, 32 on household
goods, 32 per cent on videos, 32 per cent on TV cameras, but zero
on a lot of other things like caviar, and really expensive nights
out in the best restaurants in town, so you need to even all of
that up and so you do need a replacement for the existing wholesale
tax system.
ZEMANEK:
Six months ago, the polls were saying that yes, Australians would
vote for a GST, they thought it was terrific. There seems to be
more confusion now, just as much confusion as when John Hewson was
trying to sell it years ago. Now, obviously the Labor Party have
come in, the Democrats have come in, Pauline Hanson's come
into the picture as well and once again, we find the Australian
public is confused about this GST.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they won't be confused about our plan when it comes out.
Inevitably, when you get close to releasing something, there's
a bit of a vacuum and I understand that, and we'll come under
questioning and scrutiny over the next few weeks until it comes
out, and when it does come out all of that will be blown away and
forgotten and people will focus on what is there. It will include
the cuts in personal income tax. We would never ever introduce a
goods and services tax on top of the existing system. We would only
introduce it in replacement. I mean it is not really a new tax,
it is a replacement of existing taxes accompanied by reductions
in personal income tax.
ZEMANEK:
Are you going to get rid of payroll tax? I know that it is a State
issue.
PRIME MINISTER:
There are a whole raft of taxes that people would like us to get
rid of. You've got to remember that if you are going to get
rid of one tax then the tax that replaces it has raise an equivalent
amount of money. So that is a factor that you have to take into
account in determining how many taxes you can get rid of with a
new fairer tax.
ZEMANEK:
All right. Now you are going to take some calls tonight.
Okay, first caller, I believe we have Karen Abrahams there. Karen
you are speaking with the Prime Minister.
CALLER:
Hello with Mr Howard, it is Karen Abrahams from Women's Action
Alliance calling.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes Karen.
CALLER:
Just ringing to inquire about whether the Government's current
review of the taxation system has a commitment there to make the
taxation system more family friendly than the current system is?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes it has. One of the five principles that I laid down included
a commitment that any reduction in personal income tax would particularly
advantage families and those people who fought for a long time for
a fairer tax system for families and one that recognised more than
in the past, the cost of bringing up children, will not be disappointed
when this platform comes out. I can assure you of that.
CALLER:
Thank you.
ZEMANEK:
We have another caller Prime Minister, actually it is a bloke that
you know pretty well, Keith Williams is on the line. Keith say hello
to the Prime Minister.
CALLER:
Good evening John. How are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not bad, how are you battling?
CALLER:
Oh, battling is the word.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah.
CALLER:
Continuing to battle.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good on you.
CALLER:
But after four and a half years.
PRIME MINISTER:
I know, well you deserve a medal. You have had a lot of obstruction
and I know that you have not always agreed with me, or my Government,
but at least we gave you a go.
CALLER:
Yes we're able to move forward, but I am very interested to
know John that if your Government is re-elected, are you going to
take any firm action to stop the recurrence of what's happened
to me. Because that just amounts to the fact that properly approved
projects are being harassed by a group of fanatics who have no standing
in the community and who quite openly take the law into their own
hands.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can assure you that I will always try and stop fanatics
taking the law into their own hands, whether they effect Keith Williams
or Stan Zemanek, or anybody else. For the benefit of people who
may not know, Keith, and that is probably only a small number of
people.
ZEMANEK:
I think everybody knows Keith Williams.
PRIME MINISTER:
Particularly in Queensland, this is the bloke who has been battling
against the radical greenies for the Hinchinbrook project in Queensland
and he was victimised by the former Federal Labor Government that
stopped him starting, we did change that. He is not terribly happy
with some aspects of the way in which the thing has progressed since
then, but I think you would have to agree that we have given him
the opportunity, and I know the people of the Calwell district in
Queensland are delighted that the project is going ahead and it
is because they see job opportunities.
ZEMANEK:
But he has been victimised though by the environmentalists who
have been running riot and it has cost him a fortune.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they have not been able to run riot, I mean they were able
to run riot until the change of Government and then we did allow
the project to go ahead, and I can say to you Keith, I mean I suppose
we could spend a couple of hours talking about the details of your
situation, but whether it is now or after the next election, if
you are being, if people are running riot, then of course you have
a legitimate cause to complain, and of course the Government will
do all in its power to stop that occurring and I admire your tenacity.
ZEMANEK:
Keith, are you being treated fairly by this Government?
CALLER:
Well, I hate to say it, I have never been treated fairly by any
Government, and certainly this is has been an improvement.
PRIME MINISTER:
There you are, from Keith that's not bad. That is fantastic.
The gold star award.
CALLER:
This situation, Stan, where a lot of obligations that still remain
with me are not there for environmental purposes. They have nothing
to do with the environment whatsoever, they are still there strictly
for political purposes. And I am also interested to know when the
Government is going to stop squandering the taxpayers' money
on funding these fanatics who hide under a thin veil of being conservationists
and even so-called reputable conservation organisations like the
Conservation Foundation of Australia, blatantly put out brochures
containing nothing but blatant lies.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, can I say Keith in relation to not only groups in the conservation
area but in a lot of other areas, there has been a massive reduction
in funding by this Government of what I might loosely call public
advocacy groups. Not only in the environmental area but in a whole
lot of other areas including, in particular, the trade unions who
were getting millions and millions of dollars from the former Government
to make what was none other than political propaganda. But, Keith,
come what may I would be, of course, be happy because we have made
contact yet again, I would be very very happy to pursue this a bit
further, and I will make sure my office speaks to you again in the
next couple of days.
ZEMANEK:
Well, Keith that's not a bad offer and I'm sure you'd
like to take that one up.
CALLER:
Well that's the best offer I've had all night.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it is only twenty past nine.
ZEMANEK:
Well it's the best offer and the only offer you're going
to get tonight from the Prime Minister. Keith I thank you for being
on the programme.
Prime Minister we get calls in here every night from people, people
in small business, in big business, and they are always complaining
about the unfair dismissal laws.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, well the unfair dismissal laws will get carried if the Labor
Party and the Democrats and the Independents in the Senate do their
job.
ZEMANEK:
You said that last time and they won't agree with you. They
don't want to agree with you and they don't want to pass
the laws, and so we're stuck with the unfair dismissal law.
PRIME MINISTER:
All right but if we have a double dissolution, which is a possibility,
and I win, we can present that unfair dismissal law at a joint sitting
straight after the double dissolution and we've got a majority
at that joint sitting which I hope we do, if we don't, well
then we're all history, well certainly my Government is, then
we'll get that unfair dismissal law passed. That's the
whole purpose of putting up to the Senate twice, putting it up to
the Senate twice.
ZEMANEK:
I understand all that though, but I mean, this is one of the reasons,
I mean we've still got 8% unemployment and probably a lot more
unemployed people out there.
PRIME MINISTER:
I understand.
ZEMANEK:
Bosses will not put on people.....
PRIME MINISTER:
I understand that.
ZEMANEK::
.....if they can't sack them. You know, I'm a great believer
that if the boss writes the cheque, he raises the money, he pays
the wages, he must have the right to be able sack people if he thinks
that they're not doing the job.
PRIME MINISTER:
I agree with that. But the only way I can change that is to change
the law and I can't change the law except in accordance with
the law of Australia, in accordance with the Constitution. And I'm
going through that process and I say to all of the small businessmen
who are listening to me, I understand your concern, I agree with
you, we've put the bill up twice, under the Constitution we
cannot make it law unless we first have a double dissolution and
then if we get a majority in the two Houses after that double dissolution
I can have a joint sitting and I can put it
ZEMANEK:
Sure.
PRIME MINISTER:
...[inaudible] ...that and it will then become law. Now I wish
it were otherwise, but like any other Australian citizen I am bound
by the Constitution. We do live in a law abiding society and I obey
the law and the law says to me, John Howard you cannot change that
unfair dismissal without making, going through this process and
I'm doing that. I'm sorry it's taking so long. I
didn't vote against it. The Labor Party, and the Democrats,
and the Independents, and the Greens and the others in the Senate
voted against it. If we have a double dissolution then I can get
it through at a Joint Sitting.
ZEMANEK:
What are the chances, your chances of having just another election
or are there more chances of having a double dissolution.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think it's fairly evenly balanced at the moment. I
think you'd have to say that a double dissolution is tempting
in the sense that it is only through a double dissolution that I
can get the Native Title mess fixed up, and I can get things like
the unfair dismissal law changed. On the other hand, the mathematics
are that after a double dissolution I'll probably have fewer
Senators than I would after a half-Senate election and that's
something I've got to weigh in the balance but I really do
want to get this Native Title mess fixed up. The bill we put up
is a very fair compromise and if it doesn't go through you
are going to have untold litigation and you're going to have