P13ESS, R~ ADIO AND TELEVISION CONFERENCE
GIVEN BY THEl PRIME MINISTER THE RT. HON.
SIR ROBERT MENZIES, AT CANB RRA ON
THURSDAY, 11TH FEBRUARY, 1995
PRIME MINISTER Gentlemen, the spectacle of all these microphones
and of all you people suggests to me that I am here under
false pretences, because I want to make it clear at the
outset that this is not one of' those cases where I went
abroad conducting negotiations or discussions about which
something may usefully be said later on, I was on a holiday
and, I assure you, not reading any cables or doing aiay work,,
For the first time since I became Prime Minister, I was hoping
to escape these matters for a time. However, I interrupt * ed.
that and went to London where I had two or three discussions
about which I spoke in London to the Australian Press just
before I left there. So really, I have no great matters t9
report. There are some problems inside Australia about which
I have been trying to learn something in the last twenty-, four
hours, but I don't profess to be a master of them by a long
Mt. and I believe there are certain:
questions you hawe in mind about Malaysia. Well, I have ' done
my best in the last twenty-four hour s to catch up, but one
doesn't entirely catch up the events of a month in twenty-four
hours. At least I can't. Now are there any questions you
would like to put to me?
Q6 There was one report from London, Sir that the British
Government had put pressure upon you to send troops into
Borneo. Is that correct?
A, I didn't even see the report.
Q# Well, it was published.
A. What happened on that matter was that this was being
debated in Australia I mean not debated thrashed out in
Australia in consultation with the authorities in Malaysia,
and when I was in London I received wiord as to what the
availability of' the forces was and what my colleagues here
thought about it. What happened then, was that I conveyed
that to the Prime Minister of Great Britain. There was no
pressure by him. He received the information with great
pleasure,
Q. Sir Robert, what will happen now with the Mt. Isa
dispute? dIhere do you go from here?
A, Where do I go?
Q9 What happens from now?
A* Let us understand that the Mt. Isa dispute is a local
dispute. I know it has immense national consequences of a
disastrous kind but it is, in the strict sense, a local
dispute within the jurisdiction of the Government of Queensland
and the Parliament of Queensland and, so far, matters
have been dealt with by the industrial machinery set up by
Queensland in Queensland. We, literally, have no jurisdiction
in an industrial sense over this matter which ion't interstate.
This is rather more important than appears to have been
realised. A problem may be, as this one is, of very great
national significance tremendous national significance, but
it doesn't follow that the Government of the nation can deal
with it, itself, because we do live in a Federal community / 2
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P. M. and this is one of the awkward things about it. I have been
( CONT.) in touch with the acting Premier of Queensland and I have
told him that if at any time I can be of any help on this
matter I will be not only willing but eager to help, But
what has happened there as I understand it is that the
processes of arbitration have been invoked, awards have been
made, the dispute has been rlc.. x narrowed down almost to a
personal one about this man, Mack. i'e. It seems an extraordinary
state of affairs to bring to a h. tthe greatest copper mine
in Australia, and perhaps becomJir,.: g onie of the greatest in
the icrld, I woul~ d like to thlik that the people concerned
in this mattver were really thlnking about its significance.
I say this not because I am going to crash my way in without
authority in a difficult matter of this kind, but I wonder
if they have all given thought to this that, first of all,
this is really an attack on arbitration. That's quite clear,
and this is an old battle in Australia and it has had to be
fought more than once. We, in AustroUiag believe in industrial
arbitration and the people who are employed in Australia have
a great deal to thank arbitration for. It would be a
tragedy if it were destroyed or even seriously damaged in a
struggle of this kind.
But even more importantly, here is a mine which
contributes and would normally continue to contribute very
great wealth to the country in its international trade, in
its internal economy. One has only to look back over negotiations
that occurred about the railway line from Mt. Isa, with
the many millions that the Commonwealth itself was able to
find for that enterprise, the whole thing being predicated on
a steady increase in the through-put of the Mt, Isa minei
One of the greatest strokes in northern development for a
long, long time, and here is a crippling blow delivered to
it, and delivered innocently in a misguided way by the very
people who have everything to gain by northern development
and by living in a prosperous community.
So that here you have this crippling blow, because it is
one, first of all, to a lot of families living in their homes
in Mt. Isa I have been there myself on one or two occasions
and was tremendously impressed by the fact that here was a
community-this is a crippling blow to themselves; this is,
in hum~ an terms a terrible thing. Then it is a crippling
blow to a great Australian industry, and then in the broad
national sense it is a crippling blow to the whole development
of the north because, let it be remembered, you can't develop
the north of Australia, particularly in the mineral fields
in which there are such enormous possibilities, without
attracting the investment of capital, enterprise, having
people take risks and if they think that their enterprise
can be snuffed oui at short notice by one? one curious
character not even an Australian, I believe this is a
terrible thing.
And I would like so far as I can, to appeal to all
those concerned to realise that they are not just dealing
with a little local dispute about one man but what is
involved in this is all the significance that I have just
been trying to describe. However at this stage this is all
I can do. Mr. Hiley has been good enough to tell me that
if any development occurred on which he thinks my own
influence can be of help, then he will tell me and I have
indicated that I will be willing at all times o help.
I attach enormous importance to this, but I dontt think / 3
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P. M. anything is served by brandishing non-existent weapons. Our
( CJontd.) powers so far as I know; I have had no chance to have
consultations with the Law Department but so far as I know,
our powers on this matter are, for all practical purposes,
non-existent.
Q. Sir Robert, this is very far removed from Mt. Isa.
I wondter if I could get a comment on this from you. Do you
regard the situation between Communist China and Russia, as
it stands now in the political situation of the world, as-a
safety valve for the rest of the free world?
At I don*' t think anybody can answer that question because,
so far as I can gather, and I am gathering up at pretty short
notice, don't forget, and therefore I must be a little
discreet but so far as I can make out the recent contacts
between the Prime Minister of the Soviei Union and the
Chinese authorities gave rise to some suggestion that there
might be a little watering-down of the troubles that arose
between the Soviet and China in the days of Khrushchev,
because we all know there was more than a little difference
between them. Whether this indicates that those differences
are being lessened or not I don't know, but 1 can't help
feeling that they are pro~ ty profound differences differences
of outlook, and that so long as this tension continues, it...
well, it all depends on the point of view I think it is not
a bad thing for the world, I have heard people say, philosophically
that
I have heard this all over the world. It is the thing
that is asked everywhere. What are your vievis?
Aq Well, that's my view. In a realistic fashion, I dont
think it's too bad having two people like that disputing
with each other, disagreeing with each other,
0Q. 0 Could we go back to Malaysia for a minute, Sir?
A, We haven't been there before. ( Laughter)
Q. Mr. Calwell has accused your Government of allowing what
he calls a haphazard drift into war with Indonesia, Sir Robert.
Do you think that is a fair comment?
A. No, I don'tt but still I realise that Mr. Calwell has
his weekly chore to perform and I don't mind. " Allow it to
drift What he is getting at, I sup-., ose is that
we are inert or something like that on the diplomatic front
and that we are thinking solely in terms of military activity.
This, of course, is not right. We are constantly diplomatically
active in Djakarta and we have constantly endeavoured to
produce some peace in this part of the world, but you can't
get away from this that the cause of all this trouble is that
the Indonesians are shooting. Vhen they give up shooting
people, to give effect to whatever their claims may be, then,
of course, there will be plenty of room for negotiation. I
have said repeatedly we have to live with Indonesia for
hundreds of years and I am the last one to want to create some
sort of inevitable hostility, or some long-standing hostility
between Australia and Indonesia. We want nothing better than
sound and good relations, but the fact is that Indonesia is
the aggressor, without warrant, against a neighbour. 0. 0 .1/ 1
Q Mro Prime Minister, is it still the view of the
Government we having decided to send troops into Borneo, an
attack by indonesia on them would be an attack within the
terms of' the ANZUS pact? Sir Garfield Barwick raised this
issue about a year ago.
A* Now, look I rather deplore this business about the
ANZUS pact. 1 made a statement about the ANZUS pact in
Parliament I thought somebody might ask this. When was it?
They don't even put the date on Hansard now....., 2lst April
1961+, page 1280. There I said categorically what the position
was, as we understood i, under the ANZUS pact and I was able
later on to say that that interpretation was entirely acceptable
by the United Otates. Now, I have nothing to add to that.
We have no dispute or difference with the United States about
the ANZJS pact. I attach supreme importance to it.
Q6 I was going to ask you, Sir, what were the limitations
in the role of' these Australian troops in Borneo. Presumably
they can only go into action in a defensive role on Malaysian
territory.
A, Well, they will be under the command of' the military
people and will no doubt co-operate according to the military
plans. Itm not privy to them at the moment. I can't answer
that question. They will do well, wherever they are.
Q. Sir, will the growing intensity of' the Vietnam struggle
mean a deeper involvement for Australia?
A9 This is a good question. Perhaps it is to be answered
in a somewhat different way from the one you had in mind.
The Vietnam struggle an immfensely difficult one and made
all the more difficult because of the serious political
instability in South Vietnam, seems to me to be associated
with all these other matters, it all tends to become part of
a pattern. The intensification of fighting in South Vietnam
is bound to increase the United States' efforts in that area
because they have made it clear that they intend to remain.
We are profoundly involved in this for a variety of reasons,
one of course, being that we are parties to SEATO, South
Vietnam being one of the protocol States; that the viabilityto
use the blessed word of some of the other South-East
Asian countries will be seriously affected if South Vietnam
falls to the Communists; these things are all inter-acting
or will inter-act one with the other.
Perhaps I ought to say this. I had occasion to point
out in London that we have not only one or two, but perhaps
three or four or five particular interests and responsibilities
in this part of the world, all of which affect defence, One,
of course, is our own self-defence which we dontt see as a
coastal defence but as a defence if possible, in depth, but
it is our own defence and the def'ence of New Guinea and Papua,
our side of New Guinea. In the second place, we have our
old associations with Great Britain and New Zealand in what
has been called ANZAM, which is a planning body. In the third
place, we are partners in SEATO, and SEATO, of course, being
devised as a screen against communist * ggression, gives rise
to contingent liabilities if I may put them in that way. And
under SEATO South Vietnam being a protocol State, we have
come in at their request with modest forces into South Vietnam.
We have the ANZUS pact with the United States and with New
Zealand and in the case of Malaysia we have a unilateral
obligation arising from the statement I made in Parliament. 0* 000../
P. M. So that we have five aspects of this problem, New Zealand has
( Contd.) four, Nobody else has five. We have a variety of interests
and responsibilities and that is why it is one of the things
I took the opportunRay of discussing with Mr, Wilson and some
of his Ministers in London. I took the opportunity of discussing
with them ways and means of reconciling the views from
time to time not that I contemplate their differing but
reconciling them, getting some order of priority as between
Great Britain, the United States, New Zealand and ourselves,
because there will arise times when you must balance an
actuality like the fighting in and around Malaysia with a
contingency such as obligations that might arise under SEATO.
Q9 There have been some criticisms, Sir, of the Senate
voting system following the long drawn-out poll result.
Is it likely that the Government will review it?
A, I hope you won't use it against me if I say that I
have never professed perfectly to understand how they count
the votes in the Senate. It has always been one of those
murky mysteries to me which I leave to the fellows with the
computersb But, yes, I think the system of voting for the
Senate needs looking at. With great respect to my colleague,
Senator Hannan whose defeat I regret, who advocates a
circular ballot paper, I would never become enraptured about
a circular ballot paper. It is hard enough now when you hold
the thing upright and you try to put the numbers in the right
squares, but if you have to whiz it round, it will. be what the
French call " folio circulaire".
Q. We can take it, Sir, that this matter will be examined?
A, Yes, it will.
Q. Sir Robert, on the score of the Senate, how do you
feel about the future that a deadlock will arise in the Senate?
A, I have had it before, not long ago. It is not keeping
me awake, at nights. Let's put it that way.
Q9 Sir Robert, it has been mentioned in the Press that we
will pay the money owing on the arms deal being conducted in
the United States, that in the first three years or so we will
pay in cash. Have you any knowledge at this time of how much
that cash will be?
A, Don't ask me. I know no more about it than you do.
I read the communique first in a cable from Senator Paltridge
and then in the newspapers, but I have had no time to
ascertain these Treasury matters. There were Treasury
people there.
Q. There have been some suggestions, Sir that the Commonwealth
Government will make a reasonably substantial grant
to the Churchill Memorial Fund. Has any decision been made
on that yet?
As No, not actually, but I think it may be anticipated
that we will.
Q. Sir, is th:-rc anything you can tell us about the
Commonwealth S,. cretariat? 5 e a 9 e / 6
6-
A, Well, tile officials had a meeting, as you know, in
London and they made a report which I have only just glanced
at because I got it when I was on my way to the funeral.
I had a word with Mr. Wilson about it. I think that we both
a greed it was undesirable to build up a sort of formidableexecutive
body as if we were copying the Secretary-General! s
business in the United Nations, and that this must be avoided.
But on the whole, he is disposed to think that the report has
the root of the matter in it. I offer no opinion on that
except that I would like to see a Secretariat of the right
kind. I don't want to see it become an executive body, nor
do I want to see it become a body in which there are majority
votes and minority movements and resolutions. That would
give me the horrors. However, I have told him that on my
return to Australia we would have a look at this report and
offer him our own views in good time, that is to say, before
the next Prime Minister's Conference.
Q. Sir, when is it likely that you will be able to make
a statement on the new Governor-General?
A. I don't know. You see, I had no chance to have any
discussion with The Queen. I made my bow to her on Saturday
with a lot of other people and Her Majesty was off to
Ethiopia on Monday. I haven't yet arrived in my own mind
at any firm recommendation, so I can't say.
Q. LnoMight the matter stand over, Sir, until you are in
A. I don't know. I won't restrict myself on that matter.
I might take this matter up by correspondence with Her
Majesty or wait until I see her.
Q6 Is it your inclination to recommend another
Englishman or perhaps someone
A, You will know exactly who the appointee is when
The Queen announces it.
Q. Sir Robert, can you tell us your reaction aboDut the
High Court decision on the airlines case?
A. My only reaction is that I even managed last night
to read the judgments, a considerable achievement I think,
and I found them very interesting, and that is all I have
to say because my Law people are going to tell me on Tuesday.
I'm just an ex-lawyer now, but I still think I know a bit
about it.
Q. There are one or two vacancies in Cabinet......
A. We will announce those as soon as we can.
Q. Any date yet for a conference on the airlines with
Mr. Renshaw, Sir?
A. Well, I don't know. I know that there was a
communication between the Acting Prime Minister and Mr.
Renshaw in which they appeared to agree that there would be
a consultation. On what level, I don't know yet. Probably
between Air Ministers and Transport Ministers Civil
Aviation, I mean. a ./ 7
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Recent events in Asia have raised the prospect of
a proliferation of nuclear weapons Chinese, the Indonesians,
India having plutonium capabilities Can you tell us
your thoughts on this prospect in this part of the world?
At Well, I am one of the Prime Ministers who passed a
resolution about this some years ago, urging that there be
no such proliferation, that atomic weapons ought to be kept
in as few hands as possible if possible, in the hands of
the large powers who would have a sense of responsibility
and that to scatter them would be very serious, and I still
adhere to that view.
Q. In regard to Vietnam, Sir, to return to it is it
your understanding that the recent United States aitack
in North Vietnam was a purely retaliatory one and does not
represent any basic change in American policy towards
My impression is that it was purely retaliatory,
but then don't ask to speak to me as if I were an authority
on the matter because I'm not. i'm really forming an
opinion on something about which you probably know as much
as I do.
Q. Mr. Hasluck, commenting on that, Sir, said that the
aggressor must stop or be stopped. Would you take that as
a general statement of principle applying to all aggressors?
A, Well, now, really. A nd then you will think of some
particular case
Q6 Yes indeed, Sir,
A, You must save that one up. Mr. Hasluck was right
all the same in what he said about this case, but that
little curly one that you are thinking about you must tell
me about privately.
Q. Have you got any ideas, Sir, when we are going to
see the Vernon Report?
A, Oh, no. That is one of the many things I haven't
asked about in the last twenty-four hours.