18 March 1997 TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER
THE HON JOHN HOWARD MP
INTERVIEW WITH KERRY O'BRIEN THE 7.30 REPORT
E O E
O'BRIEN: John Howard, what's your best advice on whether Sir Julius Chan is now back firmly
in control in Papua New Guinea?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the best I can really say is not terribly different from your own news reports and
what Sean Dorney has just said. Clearly there's a new commander of the defence
forces. We, of course, totally support the authority of the civilian government over the
military. And the fact that Papua New Guinea has remained a constitutional
democracy for the last 22 years is something that we warmly applaud and support.
And to the extent that our view is relevant in the matter, we're completely on the side
of Sir Julius Chan as the duly elected Prime Minister of the country in asserting his
civilian authority over the military. The attitude we have to the Sandline operation in
so far as it impacts on the bilateral association between our two countries is of course
a completely separate matter. I think it's fair to say that as Sean did in his report
that the particular exercise which was limited to a demonstration of attitude in relation
to Sandline that's over. Obviously the internal situation remains difficult and we'll
follow developments very closely.
O'BRIEN: This has been an ominous new development though, hasn't it in Papua New Guinea's
history since independence? There was a point yesterday where it really did sound like
a coup in the making. You must have had some uncomfortable moments and I wonder
what you can say about the actions that you must have canvassed?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, not a lot and I think you'll understand it wouldn't be appropriate for me to do
so. I neither want to dramatise the situation with easily colourful language or, on the
other hand, play it down. It was and remains serious. Papua New Guinea is very close
to us. We are seen by the rest of the world as having a special association with that
country. It's not an easy relationship. We are the former metropolitan power Papua
New Guinea the former colony. We try to understand that. I respect the sovereignty
of Papua New Guinea, but that doesn't relieve us of the responsibility to state our view
if we think something is happening with which we don't agree. I want a stable,
democratic Papua New Guinea. I want the duly elected civilian government of that
country to remain in complete control and that is why I made it very clear today that
we completely supported the right of the Prime Minister to dismiss the Commander of
the defence forces and the unconstitutionality of what the Commander of the defence
forces had done.
O'BRIEN: Have you spoken to Sir Julius Chan since the revolt yesterday?
PRIME MINISTER:
No haven't. I haven't thought that appropriate. Our views were immediately
conveyed through a spokesman and my High Commissioner or our High
Commissioner in Port Moresby has been in close contact with the government. 1, of
course, had a four to five hour meeting with Sir Julius in Sydney last Sunday week
where we canvassed the whole gamut of the bilateral relationship. Naturally that
conversation didn't contemplate any of the events of the past 48 hours. But it certainly
canvassed our position on the mercenaries...
O'BRIEN: And, in fact, you did tell Sir Julius face to face that there would be consequences in
terms of our relationship with Papua New Guinea if he did go ahead with his plans to
use mercenaries in Bougainville. That seems to have had no impact on him given what
he said tonight?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, if you take his words at face value, yes that is true, it does not appear to have
had any impact. I do want to make it clear as I did then, as I did in the Parliament this
afternoon, that there will be consequences. Once again this is not a situation for
overblown needlessly bellicose rhetoric but there should be no misunderstanding on
anyone's part. But if those mercenaries are used in Bougainville there will be quite
significant consequences.
O'BRIEN: What will those consequences be?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't at this stage want to canvass those. I have put them very plainly and
unambiguously to Sir Julius.
O'BRIEN: I assume it must disappoint you that he doesn't regard them as being more important
than his desire to use mercenaries.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't want the mercenaries used. I think the introduction of mercenaries into
PNG has led to some of the instability of the past few days. It's a wholly sordid,
unwelcome development in our part of the world. I sympathise with Sir Julius in his
Bougainville problem. We don't believe it can be solved by military action. We think
it will be aggravated by the use of mercenaries. We have put forward some suitable
alternatives to the use of those mercenaries. That offer remains on the table. I don't
for reasons I ask you to understand want to go into the detail of what those reasonable
alternatives are but our position is very clear and nothing in the last 48 hours has
changed it. If those mercenaries are used then there will be consequences and they will
be quite significant.
O'BRIEN: In his press conference last night Sir Julius linked General Singirok's actions to
Australia's protests over the mercenaries. What's your reaction to that?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't accept that analysis. I think the better view is that the instability of the past 48
hours is a product of the introduction of the mercenaries into that country.
O'BRIEN: Very briefly, a couple of questions on the negotiations over native title and the Wik
judgement, are you still confident that you can announce your solution by Easter as
you had intended?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I said about Easter. I am not going to be tied to a particular day. I said around
Easter. The discussions are still going on. Kerry, it's a hard ask to get an agreed
outcome on this. I am trying very hard. The atmosphere of the talks has been better
than I expected but we still have a long way to go.
O'BRIEN: And very, very quickly, have you ruled out legislating to extinguish native title over
pastoral leases?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I haven't ruled that out, no. The only two things I have ruled out are overturning
the whole concept of native title, in other words rejecting the Mabo finding that under
the common law such a thing as native title exists and the other thing I have ruled out
is doing nothing because that's..
O'BRIEN: Somewhere in between.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well somewhere in between, well, somewhere in between yes but I haven't ruled out
extinguishment. I know the sensitivity of many in the community towards that and I
certainly haven't ruled out amendments to existing legislation but I am trying very
genuinely and very hard to achieve an agreed outcome that delivers justice to all of the
parties and also security of tenure to Australia's pastoralists but also to others and
respects the feeling of achievement that the Aboriginal people found when native title
was said to exist by the High Court in the Mabo decision. Now if there is an instinct
for goodwill amongst all of the parties it ought with a lot of effort be possible to get an
agreed outcome. If there can't be an agreed outcome then I have a very clear view in
my own mind now as to what course of action I will be recommending to my Cabinet
colleagues and that will come, if it's not immediately after Easter it won't be too far
after that.
O'BRIEN: John Howard thanks for talking to us.
PRIME MINISTER:
It's a pleasure.
ends